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To what extend it is society's job to protect people from themselves? So let's assume that we legalize 'drugs' for everyone: can I now buy pot and meth and aci

To what extend it is society's job to protect people from themselves? So let's assume that we legalize 'drugs' for everyone: can I now buy pot and meth and acid and heroine and what not complete with shooting accessories from 7-Eleven? Are we seriously proposing that people in masses would be able to responsibly consume these newly available substances. If there is doubt, maybe we add, similar to obtaining a drivers license, a class of responsible substance use for kids to their high school curriculum. A 12-step program from mild to mind blowing experience that runs from elementary to the high school graduation. Which begs the question, do we make them free for all ages, subject to parents discretion, or maybe no drugs for minors? Or high schoolers? But then again, that would make it all less-free. These blanket statements about legalizing drugs made by arm chair i-dont-know-what equate to trolling, victim of which I feel I just fell ;-)

selestify 10y ago
It's not trolling, there are people (like me) who actually agree with what that post says. As to your points, alcohol is already legal. Which one of your points applies to other drugs but not alcohol?
Swizec 10y ago
So let's assume that we legalize alcohol for everyone: can I now buy beer and whisky and absinthe and whatnot complete with glasses from 7-Eleven? Are we seriously proposing that people in masses would be able to responsibly consume these substances. If ther is doubt, maybe we add, similar to obtaining a drivers license, a class of responsible alcohol use for kids to their high school curriculum. A 12-step program from mild to mind blowing drunkness that runs from elementary to the high school graduation. Which begs the question, do we make them free for all ages, subject to parents discretion, or maybe no alcohol for minors? Or high schoolers? But tehn again, that would make it less-free. And yet the world did not end when alcohol became legal where it was before illegal. Minors aren't allowed to use it. People of certain ages are allowed to use it with parents discretion. Many schools have classes about alcoholism and responsible drinking. Most people are fine with that. On the other hand, many high schoolers and below are prescribed controlled doses of amphetamines. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- bduerst 10y ago
  Alcohol is the fourth largest cause of preventable deaths in the U.S. each year. Given that it's chemically addicting and steeped in cultural history, I'm all for the Pandora's box approach of scratching it off as a loss and leaving it. We don't need more dangerous, chemically-addictive substances mass introduced to the public. At some point the priority of an individual's freedom to abuse substances and harm their selves is outweighed the lives they take from those around them in society at large. And no, Marijuana and MDMA are not chemically addictive.
  - logfromblammo 10y ago
    I wonder how alcohol ranks as a cause of preventable pregnancies. Does that count as an offset against its death rate? If you toss alcohol, you will need to substitute some other mode of social interaction with fewer or less dangerous chemicals that will get folks out of the house and meeting new people. There are many, many people out there today who never would have existed if at least one of their ancestors had never become drunk on ethanol. You can't just chuck it without first supplanting it from all the niches it may currently fill.
    - bduerst 10y ago
      Sounds like a good use case for AR apps like Pokemon Go. I just heard testimony this morning from an 18 year old who made five new friends this weekend at a local park because they were all out hunting. Bars used to be a primary social scene, but that's changed drastically in the last decade and doesn't mean they need to preserved.
squeaky-clean 10y ago
> So let's assume that we legalize 'drugs' for everyone: can I now buy pot and meth and acid and heroine and what not complete with shooting accessories from 7-Eleven? If I visit nearly any 7-Eleven after 10pm, I could buy any of these substances, it would just be in the parking lot instead of inside the store. And I wouldn't be able to tell if it was fake or cut with something.
bwanab 10y ago
At least in Colorado, you can only by pot from licensed shops where they card you when you go in and card you again when you purchase. This is a far cry from 7-Eleven. Colorado has seen pot smoking go down for kids which is counterintuitive, right? Not really. I've got kids in high school and they tell me that pot is easy to get (I don't live in Colorado). In Colorado, the illegal trade has dried up, thus making it harder, not easier for kids to get it. There's no reason to believe it would be that different for other drugs.
- leesalminen 10y ago
  I'm not entirely sure that pot is difficult for high schoolers in Colorado to obtain. The kids behind my apartment complex are there daily :). The huge increase in commercial cultivation operations make it much easier for illicit operations to grow more than they could before without getting caught. To be clear, I am for legalization. It's not all sunshine and rainbows, though. A lot of the economic changes will smooth out over time, but it's up to us to find solutions for the new wave of social issues.
MichaelGG 10y ago
You can already buy meth at grocery stores[1]. So that doesn't really debunk the argument. Alcohol is far worse yet advertised liberally and treated near-mandatory in some social situations. There's no issue restricting things based on age. That's already done for many things. So I think you're straw-manning here. 1: http://www.goodrx.com/methamphetamine?drug-name=methamphetamine http://www.goodrx.com/methamphetamine?drug-name=methamphetam...
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
dredmorbius 10y ago
I think there's a fair argument to be made for protecting people from themselves. Or of protecting those who cannot make fully informed decisions from themselves or others: the unborn, infants and children, the ill, the mentally handicapped, the insane, the elderly and senile. Which raises the question of how to go about doing this. Treating substances which short-circuit the brain's own reward and pleasure centers as illegal to use doesn't seem like it's quite working. I'm willing to explore other options. The alternative need not be abosolutely unfettered access and sale. There are substantial parts of the world in which alcohol, for example, is available and for sale. From government-owned-and-operated establishments only. With great power comes great responsibility, etc., etc. Taking active measures to discourage abuse, and to provide full, free, and effective treatments to that end would help a lot. As would requiring strict liability to producers and retailers of harmful goods, substances, and services for the damage cause. Say, automobiles, alcohol, tobacco, gambling, and guns, among others.

selestify 10y ago

It's not trolling, there are people (like me) who actually agree with what that post says. As to your points, alcohol is already legal. Which one of your points applies to other drugs but not alcohol?

Swizec 10y ago

So let's assume that we legalize alcohol for everyone: can I now buy beer and whisky and absinthe and whatnot complete with glasses from 7-Eleven? Are we seriously proposing that people in masses would be able to responsibly consume these substances. If ther is doubt, maybe we add, similar to obtaining a drivers license, a class of responsible alcohol use for kids to their high school curriculum. A 12-step program from mild to mind blowing drunkness that runs from elementary to the high school graduation. Which begs the question, do we make them free for all ages, subject to parents discretion, or maybe no alcohol for minors? Or high schoolers? But tehn again, that would make it less-free. And yet the world did not end when alcohol became legal where it was before illegal. Minors aren't allowed to use it. People of certain ages are allowed to use it with parents discretion. Many schools have classes about alcoholism and responsible drinking. Most people are fine with that. On the other hand, many high schoolers and below are prescribed controlled doses of amphetamines. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

bduerst 10y ago
Alcohol is the fourth largest cause of preventable deaths in the U.S. each year. Given that it's chemically addicting and steeped in cultural history, I'm all for the Pandora's box approach of scratching it off as a loss and leaving it. We don't need more dangerous, chemically-addictive substances mass introduced to the public. At some point the priority of an individual's freedom to abuse substances and harm their selves is outweighed the lives they take from those around them in society at large. And no, Marijuana and MDMA are not chemically addictive.
- logfromblammo 10y ago
  I wonder how alcohol ranks as a cause of preventable pregnancies. Does that count as an offset against its death rate? If you toss alcohol, you will need to substitute some other mode of social interaction with fewer or less dangerous chemicals that will get folks out of the house and meeting new people. There are many, many people out there today who never would have existed if at least one of their ancestors had never become drunk on ethanol. You can't just chuck it without first supplanting it from all the niches it may currently fill.
  - bduerst 10y ago
    Sounds like a good use case for AR apps like Pokemon Go. I just heard testimony this morning from an 18 year old who made five new friends this weekend at a local park because they were all out hunting. Bars used to be a primary social scene, but that's changed drastically in the last decade and doesn't mean they need to preserved.

squeaky-clean 10y ago

> So let's assume that we legalize 'drugs' for everyone: can I now buy pot and meth and acid and heroine and what not complete with shooting accessories from 7-Eleven? If I visit nearly any 7-Eleven after 10pm, I could buy any of these substances, it would just be in the parking lot instead of inside the store. And I wouldn't be able to tell if it was fake or cut with something.

bwanab 10y ago

At least in Colorado, you can only by pot from licensed shops where they card you when you go in and card you again when you purchase. This is a far cry from 7-Eleven. Colorado has seen pot smoking go down for kids which is counterintuitive, right? Not really. I've got kids in high school and they tell me that pot is easy to get (I don't live in Colorado). In Colorado, the illegal trade has dried up, thus making it harder, not easier for kids to get it. There's no reason to believe it would be that different for other drugs.

leesalminen 10y ago
I'm not entirely sure that pot is difficult for high schoolers in Colorado to obtain. The kids behind my apartment complex are there daily :). The huge increase in commercial cultivation operations make it much easier for illicit operations to grow more than they could before without getting caught. To be clear, I am for legalization. It's not all sunshine and rainbows, though. A lot of the economic changes will smooth out over time, but it's up to us to find solutions for the new wave of social issues.

MichaelGG 10y ago

You can already buy meth at grocery stores[1]. So that doesn't really debunk the argument. Alcohol is far worse yet advertised liberally and treated near-mandatory in some social situations. There's no issue restricting things based on age. That's already done for many things. So I think you're straw-manning here. 1: http://www.goodrx.com/methamphetamine?drug-name=methamphetamine http://www.goodrx.com/methamphetamine?drug-name=methamphetam...

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

dredmorbius 10y ago

I think there's a fair argument to be made for protecting people from themselves. Or of protecting those who cannot make fully informed decisions from themselves or others: the unborn, infants and children, the ill, the mentally handicapped, the insane, the elderly and senile. Which raises the question of how to go about doing this. Treating substances which short-circuit the brain's own reward and pleasure centers as illegal to use doesn't seem like it's quite working. I'm willing to explore other options. The alternative need not be abosolutely unfettered access and sale. There are substantial parts of the world in which alcohol, for example, is available and for sale. From government-owned-and-operated establishments only. With great power comes great responsibility, etc., etc. Taking active measures to discourage abuse, and to provide full, free, and effective treatments to that end would help a lot. As would requiring strict liability to producers and retailers of harmful goods, substances, and services for the damage cause. Say, automobiles, alcohol, tobacco, gambling, and guns, among others.