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Instead of presenting ISIS as a grassroots political movement, it is presented as a military group led by a small number of ideologues.

vinceguidry 10y ago
There's less daylight between the two than you seem to think. Grassroots movements need their organizers, otherwise they can't accomplish anything.
- tamana 10y ago
  The difference is that grassroots movement members support their leaders, and warlord groups like ISIS don't have popular support, they only have terror control of the populace
  - grandalf 10y ago
    > they only have terror control of the populace Are you sure about that? Most government-like institutions do some combination of threats of force and useful services. Hamas provides food and shelter for many. Once a government-like institution gets powerful enough, it can reduce the amount of criminal/unsavory action it engages in, and create propaganda to help with its legitimacy narrative.
imglorp 10y ago
Those ideologues are also insecure in their own beliefs: > A series of communiques issued in the Islamic State’s Syrian enclave last month closed down Internet cafes in one province and ordered the destruction of TVs and satellite dishes in another. The orders, billed as an effort to eliminate a tool for “disseminating infidel beliefs,” effectively cut off access to news from the outside world. Tyrants everywhere know their position will not withstand debate. This is something the tech community can help with: provide uncensorable, unblockable, and anonymous comm channels to keep the world talking.
- rayiner 10y ago
  Often on HN, you read the argument on here that "polls only show people support X because the mainstream media brainwashes them to believe it." I don't think that's true, but if it is, isn't it rational to want to keep your people from being exposed to that content?
  - imglorp 10y ago
    Ideally there are a variety of sources and people with brains can evaluate all positions. That's getting harder and harder as Orwell and Huxley come into force.
  - jrs235 10y ago
    >isn't it rational to want to keep your people from being exposed to that content? Absolutely. That's why control of the media is crucial to those that have an agenda and power/control complex. Look at NK, Russia, ISIS.
    - vkou 10y ago
      All governments have an agenda, and a power complex. See: FBI involvement in domestic politics, the NSA, etc.
- tamana 10y ago
  The Rwandan genocide was incited orchestrated in non-trivial part by anonymous radio broadcasts, so, double edged sword.
randomgyatwork 10y ago
Are those the same things?
- mwfunk 10y ago
  They almost always are in my experience.
knowaveragejoe 10y ago
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here.
tim333 10y ago
Because that's what it is? "Even with the influx of thousands of foreign fighters, almost all of the leaders of the Islamic State are former Iraqi officers..." https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/the-hidden-hand-behind-the-islamic-state-militants-saddam-husseins/2015/04/04/aa97676c-cc32-11e4-8730-4f473416e759_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/the-hidden-...
- grandalf 10y ago
  It's not too surprising that a displaced ruling class would find ways to lead in the aftermath of a failed nation building effort! The piece you linked also reads like propaganda. Why do we need to hate ISIS just because it has the objective of creating a solidarity movement in the middle east?
  - tim333 10y ago
    There are loads of reasons to hate ISIS. Creating a solidarity movement isn't really one. And it's not much of a solidarity movement if you are slightly the wrong religion.

vinceguidry 10y ago

There's less daylight between the two than you seem to think. Grassroots movements need their organizers, otherwise they can't accomplish anything.

tamana 10y ago
The difference is that grassroots movement members support their leaders, and warlord groups like ISIS don't have popular support, they only have terror control of the populace
- grandalf 10y ago
  > they only have terror control of the populace Are you sure about that? Most government-like institutions do some combination of threats of force and useful services. Hamas provides food and shelter for many. Once a government-like institution gets powerful enough, it can reduce the amount of criminal/unsavory action it engages in, and create propaganda to help with its legitimacy narrative.

imglorp 10y ago

Those ideologues are also insecure in their own beliefs: > A series of communiques issued in the Islamic State’s Syrian enclave last month closed down Internet cafes in one province and ordered the destruction of TVs and satellite dishes in another. The orders, billed as an effort to eliminate a tool for “disseminating infidel beliefs,” effectively cut off access to news from the outside world. Tyrants everywhere know their position will not withstand debate. This is something the tech community can help with: provide uncensorable, unblockable, and anonymous comm channels to keep the world talking.

rayiner 10y ago
Often on HN, you read the argument on here that "polls only show people support X because the mainstream media brainwashes them to believe it." I don't think that's true, but if it is, isn't it rational to want to keep your people from being exposed to that content?
- imglorp 10y ago
  Ideally there are a variety of sources and people with brains can evaluate all positions. That's getting harder and harder as Orwell and Huxley come into force.
- jrs235 10y ago
  >isn't it rational to want to keep your people from being exposed to that content? Absolutely. That's why control of the media is crucial to those that have an agenda and power/control complex. Look at NK, Russia, ISIS.
  - vkou 10y ago
    All governments have an agenda, and a power complex. See: FBI involvement in domestic politics, the NSA, etc.
tamana 10y ago
The Rwandan genocide was incited orchestrated in non-trivial part by anonymous radio broadcasts, so, double edged sword.

randomgyatwork 10y ago

Are those the same things?

mwfunk 10y ago
They almost always are in my experience.

knowaveragejoe 10y ago

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here.

tim333 10y ago

Because that's what it is? "Even with the influx of thousands of foreign fighters, almost all of the leaders of the Islamic State are former Iraqi officers..." https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/the-hidden-hand-behind-the-islamic-state-militants-saddam-husseins/2015/04/04/aa97676c-cc32-11e4-8730-4f473416e759_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/the-hidden-...

grandalf 10y ago
It's not too surprising that a displaced ruling class would find ways to lead in the aftermath of a failed nation building effort! The piece you linked also reads like propaganda. Why do we need to hate ISIS just because it has the objective of creating a solidarity movement in the middle east?
- tim333 10y ago
  There are loads of reasons to hate ISIS. Creating a solidarity movement isn't really one. And it's not much of a solidarity movement if you are slightly the wrong religion.