6 ms·

I wonder what his comments will be on the fact that "gay conversion therapy" is slated to be an official part of the GOP platform adopted at the same convention

by CPLX 10y ago

I wonder what his comments will be on the fact that "gay conversion therapy" is slated to be an official part of the GOP platform adopted at the same convention. I also wonder why there are still people who want to argue that there was literally no genuine news value in a media outlet outing a powerful billionaire who would personally and financially support a party that would put this on their platform, but I guess that's another story.

sevenless 10y ago
A lot of Democrats support homeopathy/alternative medicine, think GMOs are bad, dismiss nuclear power, etc. It's not like only one party suffers from a lack of evidence based thinking. It's misleading to go from "Parents should be allowed to seek whatever treatment or therapy they deem fit for their children" to "Republicans are advocating gay conversion therapy", anyway. Not opposing something is not the same as advocating it.
- DonHopkins 10y ago
  It's misleading of you to attempt to make such a blatantly false equivalence. The DNC isn't pushing or even recognizing homeopathic therapy as part of their official party platform. You know that. The few people in the Democratic party who believe in homeopathy and UFOs are considered nut cases and marginalized -- it's not official dogma promoted by the leaders of the party and written into the official platform, the way conversion therapy and climate change denial and marriage inequality are part of the official Republican Party platform and ideology. Don't be coy about the plausibly deniable wording. Everybody knows what the dog whistles signify.
  - qrendel 10y ago
    > The few people in the Democratic party who believe in homeopathy and UFOs are considered nut cases and marginalized -- it's not official dogma promoted by the leaders of the party Um... well... actually... https://psmag.com/why-is-hillary-clinton-making-strange-comments-about-aliens-2b9d3e0838fc https://psmag.com/why-is-hillary-clinton-making-strange-comm...
  - tanderson92 10y ago
    >The few people in the Democratic party who believe in homeopathy and UFOs are considered nut cases and marginalized On this point at least you are mistaken; John Podesta is Clinton's campaign chairman and a pretty big UFO nut. He hasn't been marginalized at all.
    - DonHopkins 10y ago
      Can you show me where in the DNC platform it mentions UFOs?
      - tanderson92 10y ago
        If you can you show me where I mentioned the DNC platform, then I'll be glad to do that. I was responding with a counterexample to the quoted part of your statement: I thought that was rather clear.
DonHopkins 10y ago
Maybe he'll be there because he believes gay conversion therapy works the other direction too, since the Grindr scene is always so hot during the Republican National Convention. [1] [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_gWaABMBIU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_gWaABMBIU
- stcredzero 10y ago
  If you go by the numbers, the GOP is gay conversion therapy! (Just not with the intended outcome.)
  - sevenless 10y ago
    I'm not sure it's either accurate or helpful to repeat the "Homophobes are closeted gays" line. You can be in the closet without being a homophobe, and there are plenty of people who simply dislike gay people for religious-cultural reasons.
    - CPLX 10y ago
      Clearly not every person who pushes homophobic rants is in the closet and gay. But Peter Thiel certainly was: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/peter-thiel-keith-rabois-stanford-review http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/peter-thiel-keith-rabois...
      - sevenless 10y ago
        The anti-gay rant quoted in this article did not come from Thiel, and I can't see anything in the linked articles to show he backed it. Not that I'm claiming Thiel is a lifelong supporter of gay rights or has never said anything terrible, simply that this article doesn't seem to support what you're claiming. Anyway, Thiel isn't a Republican himself. As per Wiki, he's a Libertarian, from an Evangelical background. I liked this link though, from 1995: http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Stanford-President-Condemns-Opinion-Piece-3022703.php http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Stanford-President-Condem... > Calling the multiculturalism movement "mindless," the piece argues that as "recycled anti-Western banalities substitute for a genuine study of Western and non- Western cultures, multiculturalism is effectively wasting some of the best years of America's brightest students." In some feminist studies courses, students were asked to write, but not necessarily send, letters to their parents about "coming out as a lesbian," said Sacks and Thiel. > The two also criticized a class on the history of rights in the United States, saying it "was so busy extolling 1960s protests movements that the class never got around to studying the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution." Have campus conservatives ever found anything new to complain about?
oconnore 10y ago
Stacks of $100 bills are actually pretty effective at wiping away guilt and plebeian sympathies.
mr_overalls 10y ago
It's not just the conversion therapy. The current GOP platform has been decried as the most anti-LGBT in the party's history by the Log Cabin Republicans. http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/log-cabin-republicans-gop-party-platform-anti-lgbt/story?id=40564850 http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/log-cabin-republicans-gop-par...
ikeboy 10y ago
>I also wonder why there are still people who want to argue that there was literally no genuine news value in a media outlet outing a powerful billionaire who would personally and financially support a party that would put this on their platform, but I guess that's another story. I assume you agree with every single thing anyone you vote for or support says, since that's the standard you're applying to him, then?
- CPLX 10y ago
  If a highly powerful billionaire on the board of top media companies participates in politics and supports hateful bigoted anti-gay organizations and candidates despite being gay himself that's news. Seems like a fairly non-confusing standard to apply, your strawman argument notwithstanding.
  - ikeboy 10y ago
    > supports hateful bigoted anti-gay organizations You really need to distinguish between hate groups and groups that contain hateful people. The KKK is a hate group. The Republican party is a group that contains hateful people. Using the same term for both is misleading.
lintiness 10y ago
social issues are a nice little diversion from what government is really all about: taking your money, borrowing against it, and spending it.
- CelestialTeapot 10y ago
  > social issues are a nice little diversion from what government is really all about: taking your money, borrowing against it, and spending it. The Republicans seem to waste a great deal of effort trying to fit the government into people's bedrooms, family life, and women's doctors offices for it to just be "a nice little diversion."
  - lintiness 10y ago
    the democrats want to outlaw sodas and guns. it's all bullshit to fire up morons. do you really think there's a snowball's chance in hell of overturning roe v. wade? do you really believe republicans want to force gay people to convert to heterosexuality? if you do, you're an abject moron, exactly the type of person this kind of divisive diversionary nonsense is aimed at.
    - JoeAltmaier 10y ago
      I guess all those Senators saying just that, are probably muddying the issue for us abject morons.
      - lintiness 10y ago
        lawyer whores say all kinds of shit they don't believe in order to "win".
    - CelestialTeapot 10y ago
      The Democrats want to impose a "sin" tax on soda to try to nudge people from making themselves even more obese than they already are, in a futile attempt to bring down health care costs, without addressing the main problem, which neither side wants to confront (too much lobbyist money at stake). I would welcome sane legislation on gun control that would work. I doubt that anyone in Congress would have the courage to do what Australia did. It really doesn't seem worth engaging you any further, as you seem to be a fine exemplar of your closing statement in your argument.
internaut 10y ago
> I also wonder why there are still people who want to argue that there was literally no genuine news value in a media outlet outing a powerful billionaire who would personally and financially support a party that would put this on their platform, but I guess that's another story. Is it normal to reverse causality to make an argument?

by CPLX 10y ago

sevenless 10y ago

A lot of Democrats support homeopathy/alternative medicine, think GMOs are bad, dismiss nuclear power, etc. It's not like only one party suffers from a lack of evidence based thinking. It's misleading to go from "Parents should be allowed to seek whatever treatment or therapy they deem fit for their children" to "Republicans are advocating gay conversion therapy", anyway. Not opposing something is not the same as advocating it.

DonHopkins 10y ago
It's misleading of you to attempt to make such a blatantly false equivalence. The DNC isn't pushing or even recognizing homeopathic therapy as part of their official party platform. You know that. The few people in the Democratic party who believe in homeopathy and UFOs are considered nut cases and marginalized -- it's not official dogma promoted by the leaders of the party and written into the official platform, the way conversion therapy and climate change denial and marriage inequality are part of the official Republican Party platform and ideology. Don't be coy about the plausibly deniable wording. Everybody knows what the dog whistles signify.
- qrendel 10y ago
  > The few people in the Democratic party who believe in homeopathy and UFOs are considered nut cases and marginalized -- it's not official dogma promoted by the leaders of the party Um... well... actually... https://psmag.com/why-is-hillary-clinton-making-strange-comments-about-aliens-2b9d3e0838fc https://psmag.com/why-is-hillary-clinton-making-strange-comm...
- tanderson92 10y ago
  >The few people in the Democratic party who believe in homeopathy and UFOs are considered nut cases and marginalized On this point at least you are mistaken; John Podesta is Clinton's campaign chairman and a pretty big UFO nut. He hasn't been marginalized at all.
  - DonHopkins 10y ago
    Can you show me where in the DNC platform it mentions UFOs?
    - tanderson92 10y ago
      If you can you show me where I mentioned the DNC platform, then I'll be glad to do that. I was responding with a counterexample to the quoted part of your statement: I thought that was rather clear.

DonHopkins 10y ago

Maybe he'll be there because he believes gay conversion therapy works the other direction too, since the Grindr scene is always so hot during the Republican National Convention. [1] [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_gWaABMBIU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_gWaABMBIU

stcredzero 10y ago
If you go by the numbers, the GOP is gay conversion therapy! (Just not with the intended outcome.)
- sevenless 10y ago
  I'm not sure it's either accurate or helpful to repeat the "Homophobes are closeted gays" line. You can be in the closet without being a homophobe, and there are plenty of people who simply dislike gay people for religious-cultural reasons.
  - CPLX 10y ago
    Clearly not every person who pushes homophobic rants is in the closet and gay. But Peter Thiel certainly was: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/peter-thiel-keith-rabois-stanford-review http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/peter-thiel-keith-rabois...
    - sevenless 10y ago
      The anti-gay rant quoted in this article did not come from Thiel, and I can't see anything in the linked articles to show he backed it. Not that I'm claiming Thiel is a lifelong supporter of gay rights or has never said anything terrible, simply that this article doesn't seem to support what you're claiming. Anyway, Thiel isn't a Republican himself. As per Wiki, he's a Libertarian, from an Evangelical background. I liked this link though, from 1995: http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Stanford-President-Condemns-Opinion-Piece-3022703.php http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Stanford-President-Condem... > Calling the multiculturalism movement "mindless," the piece argues that as "recycled anti-Western banalities substitute for a genuine study of Western and non- Western cultures, multiculturalism is effectively wasting some of the best years of America's brightest students." In some feminist studies courses, students were asked to write, but not necessarily send, letters to their parents about "coming out as a lesbian," said Sacks and Thiel. > The two also criticized a class on the history of rights in the United States, saying it "was so busy extolling 1960s protests movements that the class never got around to studying the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution." Have campus conservatives ever found anything new to complain about?

oconnore 10y ago

Stacks of $100 bills are actually pretty effective at wiping away guilt and plebeian sympathies.

mr_overalls 10y ago

It's not just the conversion therapy. The current GOP platform has been decried as the most anti-LGBT in the party's history by the Log Cabin Republicans. http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/log-cabin-republicans-gop-party-platform-anti-lgbt/story?id=40564850 http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/log-cabin-republicans-gop-par...

ikeboy 10y ago

>I also wonder why there are still people who want to argue that there was literally no genuine news value in a media outlet outing a powerful billionaire who would personally and financially support a party that would put this on their platform, but I guess that's another story. I assume you agree with every single thing anyone you vote for or support says, since that's the standard you're applying to him, then?

CPLX 10y ago
If a highly powerful billionaire on the board of top media companies participates in politics and supports hateful bigoted anti-gay organizations and candidates despite being gay himself that's news. Seems like a fairly non-confusing standard to apply, your strawman argument notwithstanding.
- ikeboy 10y ago
  > supports hateful bigoted anti-gay organizations You really need to distinguish between hate groups and groups that contain hateful people. The KKK is a hate group. The Republican party is a group that contains hateful people. Using the same term for both is misleading.

lintiness 10y ago

social issues are a nice little diversion from what government is really all about: taking your money, borrowing against it, and spending it.

CelestialTeapot 10y ago
> social issues are a nice little diversion from what government is really all about: taking your money, borrowing against it, and spending it. The Republicans seem to waste a great deal of effort trying to fit the government into people's bedrooms, family life, and women's doctors offices for it to just be "a nice little diversion."
- lintiness 10y ago
  the democrats want to outlaw sodas and guns. it's all bullshit to fire up morons. do you really think there's a snowball's chance in hell of overturning roe v. wade? do you really believe republicans want to force gay people to convert to heterosexuality? if you do, you're an abject moron, exactly the type of person this kind of divisive diversionary nonsense is aimed at.
  - JoeAltmaier 10y ago
    I guess all those Senators saying just that, are probably muddying the issue for us abject morons.
    - lintiness 10y ago
      lawyer whores say all kinds of shit they don't believe in order to "win".
  - CelestialTeapot 10y ago
    The Democrats want to impose a "sin" tax on soda to try to nudge people from making themselves even more obese than they already are, in a futile attempt to bring down health care costs, without addressing the main problem, which neither side wants to confront (too much lobbyist money at stake). I would welcome sane legislation on gun control that would work. I doubt that anyone in Congress would have the courage to do what Australia did. It really doesn't seem worth engaging you any further, as you seem to be a fine exemplar of your closing statement in your argument.

internaut 10y ago

> I also wonder why there are still people who want to argue that there was literally no genuine news value in a media outlet outing a powerful billionaire who would personally and financially support a party that would put this on their platform, but I guess that's another story. Is it normal to reverse causality to make an argument?