4 ms·

Did you forget the /s at the end of your post? :) I don't want the spyware stuff: I have been a dev on Windows for 13 years or so... long before all this force

Did you forget the /s at the end of your post? :) I don't want the spyware stuff: I have been a dev on Windows for 13 years or so... long before all this forced telemetry stuff and I am running a business based on it so switching to Linux or Mac isn't an option at this point unfortunately. Windows 7 and 8.1 work fine for the most part and I will be sticking with them but it just seems like there have been subtle changes over the last year or so that are designed to annoy me rather than fundamentaly change or break the way I work.

pdkl95 10y ago
> I am running a business based on [Windows] That's the problem; you created a business that depends on a single point of failure that is entirely outs0ide your control. Without a second source[1] or a reliable alternative strategy, your business isn't really under you control. This is why free[2] software is important. You need the right to maintain the things your business depends on. > switching to Linux or Mac isn't an option It's always an option, you simply see the cost of switching to be too high. That's for you to judge, but you might want to consider the long-term direction of MS's goal for Windows. Paying the cost of leaving now might be cheaper than paying it at some point in the future after MS does something else that disrupts your business. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_source [2] Not "open source"; having the source code doesn't do you any good if you don[t have the freedom to use it.
- herbst 10y ago
  thanks. I couldnt have said it better. I tried, but OP did understand it as sarcasm.
- _Understated_ 10y ago
  > you created a business that depends on a single point of failure that is entirely outs0ide your control I never really thought of it that way before but you are right... I still can't switch to Linux or Mac at this point though so for the short term it's out. Long term I will have to keep a close eye on Microsoft and see if it's something I have to move away from. I was always a pay-your-money-get-your-thing kind of guy but this move towards continuous upgrades and possible subscription-based / "free" operating systems isn't a shift I like... I like to "own" my stuff (I know I never "owned" Windows but I had a disk and I paid for it and I got to choose how long I kept it for and I could disable telemetry and so on). Maybe this IT stuff is a young mans game because the thought of ditching Windows, Visual Studio, SQL Server etc for Linux equivalents and having to re-learn it all doesn't fill me with hope, however, now that I read this sentence back I amd sure someone will correct me and show me that you can run all that stuff, including Active Directory in a 512MB instance of Puppy Linux or something :)
  - bigmanwalter 10y ago
    I've been on the Linux journey for about 3 years now and loving all of it. The unix philosophy of small, composable programs just makes sense. Linux/Unix is a system where programmers are the target demographic. No more feeling like a second class citizen in Windows land :)
    - herbst 10y ago
      Not only programmers! My grandmum likes how easy it is to make everything huge and high contrast when needed. My mum is a fan of unity, because everything is just reachable even with limited space. She recently even started to use a tiling plugin. My little sister spends hours customizing her desktop and tried pretty much any window manager. My dad uses linux and wine to play windows games that do not properly run with windows 7 and upwards. I would classify them all as at best average computer users, but there was not much hand holding involved in the transition at all. And way less work for me now! (Like my mum did open Locky (the crypto trojan) twice!!)
      - bigmanwalter 10y ago
        My mom recently tried figuring out video transcoding and editing on her own with her Windows machine. I'm still waiting to see what kinds of crazy malware she picked up in the process.
  - demosthenex 10y ago
    >> you created a business that depends on a single point of failure that is entirely outs0ide your control > Long term I will have to keep a close eye on Microsoft and see if it's something I have to move away from. I think there is a better analogy. Every business buys widgets from other businesses to enable them to function. There is only so much feedback or control you can get over that product, but as long as it meets your needs that's not a concern. The problem is when you rely on a widget that suddenly has disruptive planned obsolescence, does this new anti-feature impact your business? You control your internal processes, and now an external source is interfering in your change control process. Certainly you plan to replace widgets as they age on your schedule and budget. The issue is when it is forced on you. Free software isn't immune from this either, for example the rolling upgrade bandwagon (ie: its fixed in the next revision but it breaks yours) and the systemd debacle where the choice over important system components was removed.

pdkl95 10y ago

> I am running a business based on [Windows] That's the problem; you created a business that depends on a single point of failure that is entirely outs0ide your control. Without a second source[1] or a reliable alternative strategy, your business isn't really under you control. This is why free[2] software is important. You need the right to maintain the things your business depends on. > switching to Linux or Mac isn't an option It's always an option, you simply see the cost of switching to be too high. That's for you to judge, but you might want to consider the long-term direction of MS's goal for Windows. Paying the cost of leaving now might be cheaper than paying it at some point in the future after MS does something else that disrupts your business. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_source [2] Not "open source"; having the source code doesn't do you any good if you don[t have the freedom to use it.

herbst 10y ago
thanks. I couldnt have said it better. I tried, but OP did understand it as sarcasm.
_Understated_ 10y ago
> you created a business that depends on a single point of failure that is entirely outs0ide your control I never really thought of it that way before but you are right... I still can't switch to Linux or Mac at this point though so for the short term it's out. Long term I will have to keep a close eye on Microsoft and see if it's something I have to move away from. I was always a pay-your-money-get-your-thing kind of guy but this move towards continuous upgrades and possible subscription-based / "free" operating systems isn't a shift I like... I like to "own" my stuff (I know I never "owned" Windows but I had a disk and I paid for it and I got to choose how long I kept it for and I could disable telemetry and so on). Maybe this IT stuff is a young mans game because the thought of ditching Windows, Visual Studio, SQL Server etc for Linux equivalents and having to re-learn it all doesn't fill me with hope, however, now that I read this sentence back I amd sure someone will correct me and show me that you can run all that stuff, including Active Directory in a 512MB instance of Puppy Linux or something :)
- bigmanwalter 10y ago
  I've been on the Linux journey for about 3 years now and loving all of it. The unix philosophy of small, composable programs just makes sense. Linux/Unix is a system where programmers are the target demographic. No more feeling like a second class citizen in Windows land :)
  - herbst 10y ago
    Not only programmers! My grandmum likes how easy it is to make everything huge and high contrast when needed. My mum is a fan of unity, because everything is just reachable even with limited space. She recently even started to use a tiling plugin. My little sister spends hours customizing her desktop and tried pretty much any window manager. My dad uses linux and wine to play windows games that do not properly run with windows 7 and upwards. I would classify them all as at best average computer users, but there was not much hand holding involved in the transition at all. And way less work for me now! (Like my mum did open Locky (the crypto trojan) twice!!)
    - bigmanwalter 10y ago
      My mom recently tried figuring out video transcoding and editing on her own with her Windows machine. I'm still waiting to see what kinds of crazy malware she picked up in the process.
- demosthenex 10y ago
  >> you created a business that depends on a single point of failure that is entirely outs0ide your control > Long term I will have to keep a close eye on Microsoft and see if it's something I have to move away from. I think there is a better analogy. Every business buys widgets from other businesses to enable them to function. There is only so much feedback or control you can get over that product, but as long as it meets your needs that's not a concern. The problem is when you rely on a widget that suddenly has disruptive planned obsolescence, does this new anti-feature impact your business? You control your internal processes, and now an external source is interfering in your change control process. Certainly you plan to replace widgets as they age on your schedule and budget. The issue is when it is forced on you. Free software isn't immune from this either, for example the rolling upgrade bandwagon (ie: its fixed in the next revision but it breaks yours) and the systemd debacle where the choice over important system components was removed.