5 ms·

Thanks for the advice. Right now, I would like to continue in my hunt for a co-founder but do plan on trying to pick up some knowledge of programming even if I

by colellm 19y ago

Thanks for the advice. Right now, I would like to continue in my hunt for a co-founder but do plan on trying to pick up some knowledge of programming even if I do find someone to work with.

chaostheory 19y ago
regardless of whether you have previous knowledge or not, if you're willing to program (whether it's front end or back) and you do learn, even if it is on the fly, for this project... then maybe a 50 50 split does make sense...
- colellm 19y ago
  Any suggestions on things to read so I can start to learn. I am going to buy a book on rails (agile web development). Know of joel on software. Programming.reddit.com. Anything else?
  - edw519 19y ago
    Find something that has you start AND finish something, anything. Almost any O'Reilly book. Read the reviews on Amazon to see if it's the right thing. Webmonkey also has lots of beginner tutorials. The technology doesn't matter. The important thing is to try to BUILD something, fail (or not), and finally get it working. The first time you see something YOU wrote actually work, it's orgasmic. An oldie but goodie: http://webmonkey.com/webmonkey/programming/php/tutorials/tutorial4.html http://webmonkey.com/webmonkey/programming/php/tutorials/tut... You can't get wet from the word "water".
  - wallflower 19y ago
    I've been working on a big project involving Adobe Flex for the past year. Before we started the project, they brought in Adobe trainers for 5-days of on-site, slightly-better-than-powerpoint Flex training. Too much information - from one topic to the next. We all knew no Flex. Theoretically, we could have learned Flex from the online tutorials but after the recovering from the deluge of 5-days of Flex we could claim plausible knowledge. Then, we sat on it for 4 months - no flex. Of course, not until we started trying to develop UIs using Adobe Flex 4 months later did we start to learn (painfully). But the training got us started. The point of this little story - get help, ask questions (hacker personalities are problem solvers and love to solve problems), but get started. Training and mentoring can help bootstrap it. Ask a friend who is a programmer to help get you started. You seem like a good writer - why not write a blog about learning enough about programming to build your own web application?
  - Shooter 19y ago
    I prefer Python to Ruby, but language choice is another topic entirely. There are a number of web frameworks for Python that are AT LEAST as useful as Rails, including Django and Pylons. In some ways, I think Django might be better for the type of site you seem to be interested in. Of course, I'm going mostly on assumptions... I know there are a number of Python tutorials that were written specifically for scientists that are new to programming. I would think that a few tutorials that use practical examples from your own field would make the wall a bit easier to scale than a tutorial that just addresses complete noobs? I don't know of any similar "Programming for Scientists"-type tutorials for Ruby... (?) There is also a good intro to programming book that uses Python (Zelle is the author) that was recently adopted by MIT. If you want a stronger foundation - but with a potentially slower payoff - you should look at htdp.org and SICP, both of which use Scheme.
    - chaostheory 19y ago
      I do agree with shooter that python is good technologically... but the problem with Python web frameworks is that there's no one official framework yet for python that's overwhelmingly popular in the python world (though someone can prove me wrong). The end result is that there aren't that many books on stuff like Django (compared to other technologies), which really sucks when you're just starting out. Rails on the other hand has tons and tons of books. I just started a little less than a year ago and I've caught up fast because of the plethora of books and communities for Rails. in the end, if you happen to find your partner quick - they may help you choose (that's probably the best route) Forgot to mention - check out some video tutorials of Rails programming: http://rubyonrails.com/screencasts http://rubyonrails.com/screencasts http://railscasts.com http://railscasts.com http://peepcode.com http://peepcode.com (not free but really really good - they actually have 2 vids that covers all of the basics of Rails - in I think about 3-5 hours; you're not goign to remember all of it in the 1st run but it gets u comfy) a decent list of resources http://railshandbook.com/ http://railshandbook.com/ http://rubyinside.com http://rubyinside.com http://dzone.com http://dzone.com http://poignantguide.net/ruby/ http://poignantguide.net/ruby/ -funny and useful intro into ruby itself
      - Shooter 19y ago
  - ntoshev 19y ago
    To get started with Rails, learn at least minimal Ruby first: http://tryruby.hobix.com/ http://tryruby.hobix.com/ Read "Programming Ruby" part I
- NSX2 19y ago
  Yeh, that's an awesome idea - let's get rid of the insights Ford gained from the assembly line and toss out about a century's worth of industrial progress and all drop what we're doing and waste time re-inventing each other's wheels. That will really help bring thing about much more efficiently. Tell me, once you're done with your product, do you see yourself going to a VC for funding only to have the VC tell you in return, "You want money from me? Well, I don't know - if you're willing to spend years learning how to raise money from institutional investors all over the world, I might be willing to look at your proposal, otherwise, well, it's not worth it for me." Maybe you need a CEO with relevant experience. I hope the people who you approach turn around and tell you, "Gee, you're a noob when it comes to building/growing/managing a business - tell you what, why don't you first invest some time and become an executive at a Fortune 500 company like me, then I'll consider helping you out by adding my credibility to your "startup" which is basically just a bunch of code. Call me in 10 years when you're the EVP of a company whose products I use." This is why we need "big idea business people." Leave it up to you guys and your "prove your worthiness to me first" approach to life and the world would fall apart. Geesh - imagine going to a doctor or surgeon only to have them tell you, "Well, tell you what - if you're willing to go to med school, I might operate on you. Otherwise, you're not worthy of my effort."
  - chaostheory 19y ago
    I'm not saying that engineers don't need business people at all, but they do need competent business people. Either the business person in question is charismatic enough to convince or he has a proven track record or he already has money (from convincing investors). from your perspective would you partner/hire an engineer who can't build something. you can guage who's a solid engineer by what they've built, as oppose to just what they claim... on another point, when u don't have a product yet does it always make sense to get someone to start selling it before it's there in every situation (as opposed to getting someone to help you build it)? "imagine going to a doctor or surgeon only to have them tell you, "Well, tell you what - if you're willing to go to med school, I might operate on you. Otherwise, you're not worthy of my effort."" that's a bad analogy, considering patients are doctors' customers
    - 19y ago

by colellm 19y ago

Thanks for the advice. Right now, I would like to continue in my hunt for a co-founder but do plan on trying to pick up some knowledge of programming even if I do find someone to work with.

chaostheory 19y ago

regardless of whether you have previous knowledge or not, if you're willing to program (whether it's front end or back) and you do learn, even if it is on the fly, for this project... then maybe a 50 50 split does make sense...

colellm 19y ago
Any suggestions on things to read so I can start to learn. I am going to buy a book on rails (agile web development). Know of joel on software. Programming.reddit.com. Anything else?
- edw519 19y ago
  Find something that has you start AND finish something, anything. Almost any O'Reilly book. Read the reviews on Amazon to see if it's the right thing. Webmonkey also has lots of beginner tutorials. The technology doesn't matter. The important thing is to try to BUILD something, fail (or not), and finally get it working. The first time you see something YOU wrote actually work, it's orgasmic. An oldie but goodie: http://webmonkey.com/webmonkey/programming/php/tutorials/tutorial4.html http://webmonkey.com/webmonkey/programming/php/tutorials/tut... You can't get wet from the word "water".
- wallflower 19y ago
  I've been working on a big project involving Adobe Flex for the past year. Before we started the project, they brought in Adobe trainers for 5-days of on-site, slightly-better-than-powerpoint Flex training. Too much information - from one topic to the next. We all knew no Flex. Theoretically, we could have learned Flex from the online tutorials but after the recovering from the deluge of 5-days of Flex we could claim plausible knowledge. Then, we sat on it for 4 months - no flex. Of course, not until we started trying to develop UIs using Adobe Flex 4 months later did we start to learn (painfully). But the training got us started. The point of this little story - get help, ask questions (hacker personalities are problem solvers and love to solve problems), but get started. Training and mentoring can help bootstrap it. Ask a friend who is a programmer to help get you started. You seem like a good writer - why not write a blog about learning enough about programming to build your own web application?
- Shooter 19y ago
  I prefer Python to Ruby, but language choice is another topic entirely. There are a number of web frameworks for Python that are AT LEAST as useful as Rails, including Django and Pylons. In some ways, I think Django might be better for the type of site you seem to be interested in. Of course, I'm going mostly on assumptions... I know there are a number of Python tutorials that were written specifically for scientists that are new to programming. I would think that a few tutorials that use practical examples from your own field would make the wall a bit easier to scale than a tutorial that just addresses complete noobs? I don't know of any similar "Programming for Scientists"-type tutorials for Ruby... (?) There is also a good intro to programming book that uses Python (Zelle is the author) that was recently adopted by MIT. If you want a stronger foundation - but with a potentially slower payoff - you should look at htdp.org and SICP, both of which use Scheme.
  - chaostheory 19y ago
    I do agree with shooter that python is good technologically... but the problem with Python web frameworks is that there's no one official framework yet for python that's overwhelmingly popular in the python world (though someone can prove me wrong). The end result is that there aren't that many books on stuff like Django (compared to other technologies), which really sucks when you're just starting out. Rails on the other hand has tons and tons of books. I just started a little less than a year ago and I've caught up fast because of the plethora of books and communities for Rails. in the end, if you happen to find your partner quick - they may help you choose (that's probably the best route) Forgot to mention - check out some video tutorials of Rails programming: http://rubyonrails.com/screencasts http://rubyonrails.com/screencasts http://railscasts.com http://railscasts.com http://peepcode.com http://peepcode.com (not free but really really good - they actually have 2 vids that covers all of the basics of Rails - in I think about 3-5 hours; you're not goign to remember all of it in the 1st run but it gets u comfy) a decent list of resources http://railshandbook.com/ http://railshandbook.com/ http://rubyinside.com http://rubyinside.com http://dzone.com http://dzone.com http://poignantguide.net/ruby/ http://poignantguide.net/ruby/ -funny and useful intro into ruby itself
    - Shooter 19y ago
- ntoshev 19y ago
  To get started with Rails, learn at least minimal Ruby first: http://tryruby.hobix.com/ http://tryruby.hobix.com/ Read "Programming Ruby" part I
NSX2 19y ago
Yeh, that's an awesome idea - let's get rid of the insights Ford gained from the assembly line and toss out about a century's worth of industrial progress and all drop what we're doing and waste time re-inventing each other's wheels. That will really help bring thing about much more efficiently. Tell me, once you're done with your product, do you see yourself going to a VC for funding only to have the VC tell you in return, "You want money from me? Well, I don't know - if you're willing to spend years learning how to raise money from institutional investors all over the world, I might be willing to look at your proposal, otherwise, well, it's not worth it for me." Maybe you need a CEO with relevant experience. I hope the people who you approach turn around and tell you, "Gee, you're a noob when it comes to building/growing/managing a business - tell you what, why don't you first invest some time and become an executive at a Fortune 500 company like me, then I'll consider helping you out by adding my credibility to your "startup" which is basically just a bunch of code. Call me in 10 years when you're the EVP of a company whose products I use." This is why we need "big idea business people." Leave it up to you guys and your "prove your worthiness to me first" approach to life and the world would fall apart. Geesh - imagine going to a doctor or surgeon only to have them tell you, "Well, tell you what - if you're willing to go to med school, I might operate on you. Otherwise, you're not worthy of my effort."
- chaostheory 19y ago
  I'm not saying that engineers don't need business people at all, but they do need competent business people. Either the business person in question is charismatic enough to convince or he has a proven track record or he already has money (from convincing investors). from your perspective would you partner/hire an engineer who can't build something. you can guage who's a solid engineer by what they've built, as oppose to just what they claim... on another point, when u don't have a product yet does it always make sense to get someone to start selling it before it's there in every situation (as opposed to getting someone to help you build it)? "imagine going to a doctor or surgeon only to have them tell you, "Well, tell you what - if you're willing to go to med school, I might operate on you. Otherwise, you're not worthy of my effort."" that's a bad analogy, considering patients are doctors' customers
  - 19y ago