4 ms·

Yeah we need snuff out the scourge of voluntary market transactions.

by aminok 10y ago

vidarh 10y ago
These transactions have affected parties that are not voluntary participants, such as the neighbours. That is the problem.
- aminok 10y ago
  If tenants are disturbing neighbours the owner should be held liable, whether the tenant is a short term renter or a long term renter. Airbnb has an effective mechanism to ensure good guest behavior: ratings. There is no justification for discriminating against all short term renters to prevent neighbours from being disturbed. The affected parties city governments are pandering to are those looking to rent long-term, and they have no legal or moral claim to renting someone else's asset, let alone dictating the rate at which it is rented out.
  - c22 10y ago
    But neighbors don't get to rate the renters of the airbnb next door, so who will give them a negative rating? The business owner who does not reside there and is hoping for no repeat customers?
    - aminok 10y ago
      If the city can create a law punishing landlords who rent short term, they can create a law punishing landlords whose tenants disturb neighbours. Once the incentive is there, landlords using Airbnb will be sure to monitor guest behavior toward the commons/neighbours, and report misbehaviour in the ratings they give out.
      - c22 10y ago
        But we already have a framework of laws governing the business of offering short term rentals. Why is creating and enforcing this new framework better than asking people who want to run hotels to just follow the existing rules? It doesn't sound simpler.
        aminok 10y ago
        The laws violate human rights. People should not have their right to contract denied. Actions that infringe upon the rights of others, like damaging the common area of an apartment building, or creating noise pollution, can be justifiably prohibited, but not actions that are non-infringing and only deemed to be correlated with the infringing action. In other words, prohibiting short term rentals is a form of repression.
        cmurf 10y ago
        You're completely wrong on every count. Your argument weirdly proposes a totally anti-democracy, pro-mercantilst point of view where citizens have no right to petition government for zoning laws that clearly disallow, for everyone, operating certain types of business in those zone. Short term rental is widely regarded as operating a hotel or b&b.
        aminok 10y ago
        Claiming I'm wrong doesn't make it so. Your definition of democratic is the majority being able to violate the minority's rights. Your definition of mercantilism is also totally wrong. >Short term rental is widely regarded as operating a hotel or b&b. You say that as if it justifies repressing it. As if certain categories of voluntary transactions can justifiably be repressed.

Yeah we need snuff out the scourge of voluntary market transactions.

by aminok 10y ago

Yeah we need snuff out the scourge of voluntary market transactions.

These transactions have affected parties that are not voluntary participants, such as the neighbours. That is the problem.

aminok 10y ago
If tenants are disturbing neighbours the owner should be held liable, whether the tenant is a short term renter or a long term renter. Airbnb has an effective mechanism to ensure good guest behavior: ratings. There is no justification for discriminating against all short term renters to prevent neighbours from being disturbed. The affected parties city governments are pandering to are those looking to rent long-term, and they have no legal or moral claim to renting someone else's asset, let alone dictating the rate at which it is rented out.
- c22 10y ago
  But neighbors don't get to rate the renters of the airbnb next door, so who will give them a negative rating? The business owner who does not reside there and is hoping for no repeat customers?
  - aminok 10y ago
    If the city can create a law punishing landlords who rent short term, they can create a law punishing landlords whose tenants disturb neighbours. Once the incentive is there, landlords using Airbnb will be sure to monitor guest behavior toward the commons/neighbours, and report misbehaviour in the ratings they give out.
    - c22 10y ago
      But we already have a framework of laws governing the business of offering short term rentals. Why is creating and enforcing this new framework better than asking people who want to run hotels to just follow the existing rules? It doesn't sound simpler.
      - aminok 10y ago
        The laws violate human rights. People should not have their right to contract denied. Actions that infringe upon the rights of others, like damaging the common area of an apartment building, or creating noise pollution, can be justifiably prohibited, but not actions that are non-infringing and only deemed to be correlated with the infringing action. In other words, prohibiting short term rentals is a form of repression.
        cmurf 10y ago
        You're completely wrong on every count. Your argument weirdly proposes a totally anti-democracy, pro-mercantilst point of view where citizens have no right to petition government for zoning laws that clearly disallow, for everyone, operating certain types of business in those zone. Short term rental is widely regarded as operating a hotel or b&b.
        aminok 10y ago
        Claiming I'm wrong doesn't make it so. Your definition of democratic is the majority being able to violate the minority's rights. Your definition of mercantilism is also totally wrong. >Short term rental is widely regarded as operating a hotel or b&b. You say that as if it justifies repressing it. As if certain categories of voluntary transactions can justifiably be repressed.