4 ms·

I respectfully disagree with edw519. While your assessment that you are indeed not a "programmer" may be technically accurate, but, if this is you: http://www.

by sarosh 19y ago

I respectfully disagree with edw519. While your assessment that you are indeed not a "programmer" may be technically accurate, but, if this is you: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/2/B06/B99 http://www.linkedin.com/pub/2/B06/B99 then I think you sufficiently qualify under a very broad definition of a hacker, or, alternatively, you are quite technical yourself. While you may currently feel you need a co-founder for your project who is a "programmer", you should not sell yourself short. One thing you should strongly consider is just plunging in and trying to code for yourself. Take a look at this article regarding the founder of Plentyoffish.com. Mssr. Frind built the site while learning to program. See, http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/13/business/13digi.html?_r=2&scp=1&sq=plenty+of+fish&oref=slogin&oref=slogin http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/13/business/13digi.html?_r=2&... So one approach would be to learn to program while you put the site together. While this may be rough in the beginning and ultimately result in total failure, you will at least (a) know more about what goes into making a web app (generally) and (b) when you seek a technical co-founder you can be much more precise and clear about what you need. As for languages, Ruby on Rails or Python would both be great. But, just for fun, take a look at Arc http://arclanguage.org/ http://arclanguage.org/ Hope that helps.

colellm 19y ago
Thanks for the advice. Right now, I would like to continue in my hunt for a co-founder but do plan on trying to pick up some knowledge of programming even if I do find someone to work with.
- chaostheory 19y ago
  regardless of whether you have previous knowledge or not, if you're willing to program (whether it's front end or back) and you do learn, even if it is on the fly, for this project... then maybe a 50 50 split does make sense...
  - colellm 19y ago
    Any suggestions on things to read so I can start to learn. I am going to buy a book on rails (agile web development). Know of joel on software. Programming.reddit.com. Anything else?
    - edw519 19y ago
      Find something that has you start AND finish something, anything. Almost any O'Reilly book. Read the reviews on Amazon to see if it's the right thing. Webmonkey also has lots of beginner tutorials. The technology doesn't matter. The important thing is to try to BUILD something, fail (or not), and finally get it working. The first time you see something YOU wrote actually work, it's orgasmic. An oldie but goodie: http://webmonkey.com/webmonkey/programming/php/tutorials/tutorial4.html http://webmonkey.com/webmonkey/programming/php/tutorials/tut... You can't get wet from the word "water".
    - wallflower 19y ago
      I've been working on a big project involving Adobe Flex for the past year. Before we started the project, they brought in Adobe trainers for 5-days of on-site, slightly-better-than-powerpoint Flex training. Too much information - from one topic to the next. We all knew no Flex. Theoretically, we could have learned Flex from the online tutorials but after the recovering from the deluge of 5-days of Flex we could claim plausible knowledge. Then, we sat on it for 4 months - no flex. Of course, not until we started trying to develop UIs using Adobe Flex 4 months later did we start to learn (painfully). But the training got us started. The point of this little story - get help, ask questions (hacker personalities are problem solvers and love to solve problems), but get started. Training and mentoring can help bootstrap it. Ask a friend who is a programmer to help get you started. You seem like a good writer - why not write a blog about learning enough about programming to build your own web application?
    - Shooter 19y ago
      I prefer Python to Ruby, but language choice is another topic entirely. There are a number of web frameworks for Python that are AT LEAST as useful as Rails, including Django and Pylons. In some ways, I think Django might be better for the type of site you seem to be interested in. Of course, I'm going mostly on assumptions... I know there are a number of Python tutorials that were written specifically for scientists that are new to programming. I would think that a few tutorials that use practical examples from your own field would make the wall a bit easier to scale than a tutorial that just addresses complete noobs? I don't know of any similar "Programming for Scientists"-type tutorials for Ruby... (?) There is also a good intro to programming book that uses Python (Zelle is the author) that was recently adopted by MIT. If you want a stronger foundation - but with a potentially slower payoff - you should look at htdp.org and SICP, both of which use Scheme.
  - NSX2 19y ago
    Yeh, that's an awesome idea - let's get rid of the insights Ford gained from the assembly line and toss out about a century's worth of industrial progress and all drop what we're doing and waste time re-inventing each other's wheels. That will really help bring thing about much more efficiently. Tell me, once you're done with your product, do you see yourself going to a VC for funding only to have the VC tell you in return, "You want money from me? Well, I don't know - if you're willing to spend years learning how to raise money from institutional investors all over the world, I might be willing to look at your proposal, otherwise, well, it's not worth it for me." Maybe you need a CEO with relevant experience. I hope the people who you approach turn around and tell you, "Gee, you're a noob when it comes to building/growing/managing a business - tell you what, why don't you first invest some time and become an executive at a Fortune 500 company like me, then I'll consider helping you out by adding my credibility to your "startup" which is basically just a bunch of code. Call me in 10 years when you're the EVP of a company whose products I use." This is why we need "big idea business people." Leave it up to you guys and your "prove your worthiness to me first" approach to life and the world would fall apart. Geesh - imagine going to a doctor or surgeon only to have them tell you, "Well, tell you what - if you're willing to go to med school, I might operate on you. Otherwise, you're not worthy of my effort."
    - chaostheory 19y ago
      I'm not saying that engineers don't need business people at all, but they do need competent business people. Either the business person in question is charismatic enough to convince or he has a proven track record or he already has money (from convincing investors). from your perspective would you partner/hire an engineer who can't build something. you can guage who's a solid engineer by what they've built, as oppose to just what they claim... on another point, when u don't have a product yet does it always make sense to get someone to start selling it before it's there in every situation (as opposed to getting someone to help you build it)? "imagine going to a doctor or surgeon only to have them tell you, "Well, tell you what - if you're willing to go to med school, I might operate on you. Otherwise, you're not worthy of my effort."" that's a bad analogy, considering patients are doctors' customers
      - 19y ago

by sarosh 19y ago

colellm 19y ago

Thanks for the advice. Right now, I would like to continue in my hunt for a co-founder but do plan on trying to pick up some knowledge of programming even if I do find someone to work with.

chaostheory 19y ago
regardless of whether you have previous knowledge or not, if you're willing to program (whether it's front end or back) and you do learn, even if it is on the fly, for this project... then maybe a 50 50 split does make sense...
- colellm 19y ago
  Any suggestions on things to read so I can start to learn. I am going to buy a book on rails (agile web development). Know of joel on software. Programming.reddit.com. Anything else?
  - edw519 19y ago
    Find something that has you start AND finish something, anything. Almost any O'Reilly book. Read the reviews on Amazon to see if it's the right thing. Webmonkey also has lots of beginner tutorials. The technology doesn't matter. The important thing is to try to BUILD something, fail (or not), and finally get it working. The first time you see something YOU wrote actually work, it's orgasmic. An oldie but goodie: http://webmonkey.com/webmonkey/programming/php/tutorials/tutorial4.html http://webmonkey.com/webmonkey/programming/php/tutorials/tut... You can't get wet from the word "water".
  - wallflower 19y ago
    I've been working on a big project involving Adobe Flex for the past year. Before we started the project, they brought in Adobe trainers for 5-days of on-site, slightly-better-than-powerpoint Flex training. Too much information - from one topic to the next. We all knew no Flex. Theoretically, we could have learned Flex from the online tutorials but after the recovering from the deluge of 5-days of Flex we could claim plausible knowledge. Then, we sat on it for 4 months - no flex. Of course, not until we started trying to develop UIs using Adobe Flex 4 months later did we start to learn (painfully). But the training got us started. The point of this little story - get help, ask questions (hacker personalities are problem solvers and love to solve problems), but get started. Training and mentoring can help bootstrap it. Ask a friend who is a programmer to help get you started. You seem like a good writer - why not write a blog about learning enough about programming to build your own web application?
  - Shooter 19y ago
    I prefer Python to Ruby, but language choice is another topic entirely. There are a number of web frameworks for Python that are AT LEAST as useful as Rails, including Django and Pylons. In some ways, I think Django might be better for the type of site you seem to be interested in. Of course, I'm going mostly on assumptions... I know there are a number of Python tutorials that were written specifically for scientists that are new to programming. I would think that a few tutorials that use practical examples from your own field would make the wall a bit easier to scale than a tutorial that just addresses complete noobs? I don't know of any similar "Programming for Scientists"-type tutorials for Ruby... (?) There is also a good intro to programming book that uses Python (Zelle is the author) that was recently adopted by MIT. If you want a stronger foundation - but with a potentially slower payoff - you should look at htdp.org and SICP, both of which use Scheme.
- NSX2 19y ago
  Yeh, that's an awesome idea - let's get rid of the insights Ford gained from the assembly line and toss out about a century's worth of industrial progress and all drop what we're doing and waste time re-inventing each other's wheels. That will really help bring thing about much more efficiently. Tell me, once you're done with your product, do you see yourself going to a VC for funding only to have the VC tell you in return, "You want money from me? Well, I don't know - if you're willing to spend years learning how to raise money from institutional investors all over the world, I might be willing to look at your proposal, otherwise, well, it's not worth it for me." Maybe you need a CEO with relevant experience. I hope the people who you approach turn around and tell you, "Gee, you're a noob when it comes to building/growing/managing a business - tell you what, why don't you first invest some time and become an executive at a Fortune 500 company like me, then I'll consider helping you out by adding my credibility to your "startup" which is basically just a bunch of code. Call me in 10 years when you're the EVP of a company whose products I use." This is why we need "big idea business people." Leave it up to you guys and your "prove your worthiness to me first" approach to life and the world would fall apart. Geesh - imagine going to a doctor or surgeon only to have them tell you, "Well, tell you what - if you're willing to go to med school, I might operate on you. Otherwise, you're not worthy of my effort."
  - chaostheory 19y ago
    I'm not saying that engineers don't need business people at all, but they do need competent business people. Either the business person in question is charismatic enough to convince or he has a proven track record or he already has money (from convincing investors). from your perspective would you partner/hire an engineer who can't build something. you can guage who's a solid engineer by what they've built, as oppose to just what they claim... on another point, when u don't have a product yet does it always make sense to get someone to start selling it before it's there in every situation (as opposed to getting someone to help you build it)? "imagine going to a doctor or surgeon only to have them tell you, "Well, tell you what - if you're willing to go to med school, I might operate on you. Otherwise, you're not worthy of my effort."" that's a bad analogy, considering patients are doctors' customers
    - 19y ago