5 ms·

Government indifference (at all levels) to this risk is scary. "The Metcalf substation (San Jose, CA, USA), while undergoing security upgrades, was hit again i

by DrScump 10y ago

Government indifference (at all levels) to this risk is scary. "The Metcalf substation (San Jose, CA, USA), while undergoing security upgrades, was hit again in August 2014. Intruders cut through fences and burglarized equipment containers, triggering at least 14 alarms over four hours. Utility employees didn’t call police or alert guards, who were stationed at the site, according to a state inquiry." The problem is compounded by a large (and growing) number of electrical outages caused by copper thieves ripping out wiring; it becomes more difficult to distinguish mere theft from terrorism.

reustle 10y ago
> it becomes more difficult to distinguish mere theft from terrorism Please stop using that word so freely. Someone carving out a bunch of wire to make a few bucks at the scrap yard is not a terrorist.
- luminiferous 10y ago
  That's what the OP is saying. Terrorists are likely to target infrastructure such as power stations, but a power outage caused by copper thieves looks much the same as a power station being taken down by terrorists.
  - ctack 10y ago
    It's Isis paying dirty oil money for American power grid copper in a bid to blackout the country! \s
  - forgottenpass 10y ago
    By that logic, power lines taken out by tree branches weighed down by snow and ice looks much the same as terrorism too. I think that the point is terrorism is just a stupid conclusion to jump to for power outages. Even in cases where it is terrorism.
steven777400 10y ago
I'm not sure how your quote reflects "government indifference". The substation is owned by a private company (PG&E). Employees of this company failed to respond to the alarms and notify police. If they called police and police failed to respond, then that would be a government failure. A private company's employees not responding, it's more unclear how that's indifference on the government's part.
- Spooky23 10y ago
  It's a public utility. The regulator should be... regulating this type of thing if the company is to incompetent to do so on its own.
Johnny555 10y ago
The bigger problem with that article snippet is that the on-site guards weren't notified about the on-site alarms directly. If they are going to the expense of having guards on-site, why route the alarms to some other utility workers who then have to track down the on-site guards to tell them about a local alarm?
jaredhansen 10y ago
If it's difficult to distinguish mere theft from terrorism, then here's a hint: it isn't terrorism. The "terror" in "terrorism" is there for a reason. If nobody can tell that you stole the wiring because you resent the British rule of the Northern Territories/the French occupation of Algeria/US bases in the middle east/whatever, then even if you intended your act to terrify others into getting their government to comply with your wishes, you have failed pretty badly.
- busyant 10y ago
  Maybe a more accurate phrase is "state sponsored sabotage."
  - ivanca 10y ago
    That wording doesn't attract clicks, and it's all this generation is about. You think I'm joking but I'm sure future anthropologists will document how clickbaiting changed the English language. Heck, I have seen common people baiting in their own captions "check what they put in this sandwich, this would be unbelievable in America"
    - astronautjones 10y ago
      Glenn Greenwald has made this particular point about the word "terrorism" so many times that his columns have to cannibalize themselves, but I do think they will be what future anthropologists cite most frequently, as he's got it nailed: https://theintercept.com/2015/06/19/refusal-call-charleston-shootings-terrorism-shows-meaningless-propaganda-term/ https://theintercept.com/2015/06/19/refusal-call-charleston-...
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- rconti 10y ago
  Maybe it just didn't work. Or maybe it was a dry run. Shooting up transformers in Metcalf was clearly not theft, I know that.
sien 10y ago
There are almost certainly people in the FBI and other agencies who have considered the risk and have thought about it and watch for people trying to do this maliciously. They just don't write things up and tell you what they have thought about and what they have in mind to handle it. Hopefully, when things like substations go down and alarms go off people do, quietly, think about what the impact could have been. However, it doesn't mean that an attack couldn't succeed.

by DrScump 10y ago

reustle 10y ago

> it becomes more difficult to distinguish mere theft from terrorism Please stop using that word so freely. Someone carving out a bunch of wire to make a few bucks at the scrap yard is not a terrorist.

luminiferous 10y ago
That's what the OP is saying. Terrorists are likely to target infrastructure such as power stations, but a power outage caused by copper thieves looks much the same as a power station being taken down by terrorists.
- ctack 10y ago
  It's Isis paying dirty oil money for American power grid copper in a bid to blackout the country! \s
- forgottenpass 10y ago
  By that logic, power lines taken out by tree branches weighed down by snow and ice looks much the same as terrorism too. I think that the point is terrorism is just a stupid conclusion to jump to for power outages. Even in cases where it is terrorism.

steven777400 10y ago

I'm not sure how your quote reflects "government indifference". The substation is owned by a private company (PG&E). Employees of this company failed to respond to the alarms and notify police. If they called police and police failed to respond, then that would be a government failure. A private company's employees not responding, it's more unclear how that's indifference on the government's part.

Spooky23 10y ago
It's a public utility. The regulator should be... regulating this type of thing if the company is to incompetent to do so on its own.

Johnny555 10y ago

The bigger problem with that article snippet is that the on-site guards weren't notified about the on-site alarms directly. If they are going to the expense of having guards on-site, why route the alarms to some other utility workers who then have to track down the on-site guards to tell them about a local alarm?

jaredhansen 10y ago

If it's difficult to distinguish mere theft from terrorism, then here's a hint: it isn't terrorism. The "terror" in "terrorism" is there for a reason. If nobody can tell that you stole the wiring because you resent the British rule of the Northern Territories/the French occupation of Algeria/US bases in the middle east/whatever, then even if you intended your act to terrify others into getting their government to comply with your wishes, you have failed pretty badly.

busyant 10y ago
Maybe a more accurate phrase is "state sponsored sabotage."
- ivanca 10y ago
  That wording doesn't attract clicks, and it's all this generation is about. You think I'm joking but I'm sure future anthropologists will document how clickbaiting changed the English language. Heck, I have seen common people baiting in their own captions "check what they put in this sandwich, this would be unbelievable in America"
  - astronautjones 10y ago
    Glenn Greenwald has made this particular point about the word "terrorism" so many times that his columns have to cannibalize themselves, but I do think they will be what future anthropologists cite most frequently, as he's got it nailed: https://theintercept.com/2015/06/19/refusal-call-charleston-shootings-terrorism-shows-meaningless-propaganda-term/ https://theintercept.com/2015/06/19/refusal-call-charleston-...
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
rconti 10y ago
Maybe it just didn't work. Or maybe it was a dry run. Shooting up transformers in Metcalf was clearly not theft, I know that.

sien 10y ago

There are almost certainly people in the FBI and other agencies who have considered the risk and have thought about it and watch for people trying to do this maliciously. They just don't write things up and tell you what they have thought about and what they have in mind to handle it. Hopefully, when things like substations go down and alarms go off people do, quietly, think about what the impact could have been. However, it doesn't mean that an attack couldn't succeed.