6 ms·

"He gave consent, and it's my word against his." "He smelled of marijuana." "In my expert opinion he appeared intoxicated." "I saw residue that I believed to

by 1_2__3 10y ago

"He gave consent, and it's my word against his." "He smelled of marijuana." "In my expert opinion he appeared intoxicated." "I saw residue that I believed to be an illegal substance." "Suspect was in a neighborhood known for illegal activity." "A drug dog signaled on the vehicle." "While performing a safety check on one of the occupants I found a weapon, leading me to believe there may be more weapons in the vehicle." Please, please, please, can we at least all get on the same page when it comes to what constraints there actually are on police in the real world. We can't possibly have a serious conversation about policing so long as there's naive comments like this in the discussion, that make sense only in a fantasy world that we have ample evidence does not exist, at least not in the US.

cmdrfred 10y ago
I'm asking why they are allowed, as in, why does it makes sense that they are allowed.
- lisper 10y ago
  Because some people believe that the ends justify the means. They would rather see innocent people punished than guilty ones go free. They especially don't like seeing guilty people go free on "technicalities." Furthermore, many people are prejudiced or bigoted. They see people different from themselves (which in today's world generally means people with dark skin or people who wear non-Western clothing) doing bad things, and they conclude that most or all people who are different from themselves do bad things. On that worldview, due process is an impediment to seeing justice done. That mindset, together with democracy, leads to abuse.
  - pfooti 10y ago
    There's also this false narrative - the police search TONS of people without finding drugs or anything actionable. They happen to also search people who have drugs. But the only people who go in front of judges are (for the most part) criminals. So judges (and the press) only see the actual positives, not the 19 false positives for each actual positive. 0: http://newjimcrow.com/ http://newjimcrow.com/ (sourced from the book, chapter ... I think 3?)
    - lisper 10y ago
      Yes. And it's even worse than that: prosecutorial misconduct leads to a lot of innocent people pleading guilty to crimes they did not actually commit in order to avoid the risk of being unjustly convicted of a more serious crime that they also did not commit. But in the eyes of the system, again, justice has been done because the person is, by their own (coerced) admission, guilty.
    - lostlogin 10y ago
      It's a lot worse than just that. Of the 20 stopped and searched, 17 will be black or Hispanic. http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/08/13/opinion/racial-discrimination-in-stop-and-frisk.html http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/08/13/opinion/racial-discrimi...

by 1_2__3 10y ago

cmdrfred 10y ago

I'm asking why they are allowed, as in, why does it makes sense that they are allowed.

lisper 10y ago
Because some people believe that the ends justify the means. They would rather see innocent people punished than guilty ones go free. They especially don't like seeing guilty people go free on "technicalities." Furthermore, many people are prejudiced or bigoted. They see people different from themselves (which in today's world generally means people with dark skin or people who wear non-Western clothing) doing bad things, and they conclude that most or all people who are different from themselves do bad things. On that worldview, due process is an impediment to seeing justice done. That mindset, together with democracy, leads to abuse.
- pfooti 10y ago
  There's also this false narrative - the police search TONS of people without finding drugs or anything actionable. They happen to also search people who have drugs. But the only people who go in front of judges are (for the most part) criminals. So judges (and the press) only see the actual positives, not the 19 false positives for each actual positive. 0: http://newjimcrow.com/ http://newjimcrow.com/ (sourced from the book, chapter ... I think 3?)
  - lisper 10y ago
    Yes. And it's even worse than that: prosecutorial misconduct leads to a lot of innocent people pleading guilty to crimes they did not actually commit in order to avoid the risk of being unjustly convicted of a more serious crime that they also did not commit. But in the eyes of the system, again, justice has been done because the person is, by their own (coerced) admission, guilty.
  - lostlogin 10y ago
    It's a lot worse than just that. Of the 20 stopped and searched, 17 will be black or Hispanic. http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/08/13/opinion/racial-discrimination-in-stop-and-frisk.html http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/08/13/opinion/racial-discrimi...