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How long do you think they're going to be allowed to call it "Autopilot" when it's clearly not, and that confusion causes customers to trust it in ways that the

How long do you think they're going to be allowed to call it "Autopilot" when it's clearly not, and that confusion causes customers to trust it in ways that they shouldn't, and end up dying? I'm not saying Tesla should be stopped or that Elon should go to jail. But I think it's a clear case of false advertising, where lives are on the line.

mikeash 10y ago
Actual airplane "autopilots" can be something as simple as automatic wing leveling or altitude hold. Using that name for Tesla's technology is only inaccurate in that they don't make airplanes. Where did everybody get the idea that "autopilot" implies full autonomy?
- WordyMcWordface 10y ago
  I expect an inflatable driver to appear and take the wheel, requiring only an occasional top up of air to keep things on the level.
  - mikeash 10y ago
    I actually wonder if Airplane! is where people got the idea that "autopilot" means "the plane entirely flies itself." The bit where it's an inflatable doll is obviously satire, but maybe people thought the capabilities were real and the satire was just the doll part?
- treebeard901 10y ago
  For most people the word autopilot historically has meant full autonomy.
  - mikeash 10y ago
    OK, but why? Such a thing has never existed on any production crewed aircraft.
- msandford 10y ago
  Sure, let's torture language for Tesla's benefit! Why not? I mean, we shouldn't let a silly thing like people's lives get in the way. Since you know about historical autopilots I suspect this will be redundant, but here it is anyhow: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autopilot#Modern_autopilots https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autopilot#Modern_autopilots "Modern" autopilots have been around for a while, something like 40-50 years. Sure if you go back 80 years you can find autopilots that aren't as advanced. If you want to move the goalposts like that, relative to what a reasonable person might expect, knock yourself out.
  - mikeash 10y ago
    What part of that article do you think is a point against what I'm saying, exactly? Autoland and taxiing? That requires a Category III airport which many airports, even those served by airliners, aren't. It also requires pilot supervision and pilot intervention in the event of emergency. Hardly autonomous! And there are plenty of systems below that. For example: http://sarasotaavionics.com/category/autopilots/certified-autopilots http://sarasotaavionics.com/category/autopilots/certified-au... Note: single axis and 2-axis. Just like what I said it can be. But yes, the people insisting that "autopilot" does not imply autonomy, simply because no autonomous autopilot exists on any commercial aircraft, are torturing the language. Sure.
    - msandford 10y ago
      Find ~10 normal people and ask them what an autopilot does on an airplane. They're all going to say something along the lines of "it flies the airplane" and their intuition lines up with reality for about 90%+ of flights that are done with autopilots. Ask those same ~10 people what an autopilot does for a car. They'll say something like "it drives the car". Given what the Tesla Autopilot (tm) is capable of doing, their understanding of what the name means and what the software can actually do only has maybe a 20% overlap. So yes I would call that torturing language. It's an autopilot that can drive the car under a very limited set of circumstances AND it requires that Jesus (you, the driver) is always 100% alert and ready to snatch the wheel the second the car starts to do an unsafe thing. It's a totally different control problem in cars than it is in airplanes, and it's impressive that they're doing well enough to where people will trust the system enough to get into this kind of trouble. But right now it seems like Tesla's in the uncanny valley of self-driving. Good enough to make people say "huh, it works" but not so good that it works 100% of the time, always, forever, no matter the conditions, other crazy drivers and all the freak occurrences that are literally 1 in a million, but given that there are 1.1 billion car trips per day in the US will happen 1100 times a day. Even at 1 in a billion it'll still happen once per day.

mikeash 10y ago

Actual airplane "autopilots" can be something as simple as automatic wing leveling or altitude hold. Using that name for Tesla's technology is only inaccurate in that they don't make airplanes. Where did everybody get the idea that "autopilot" implies full autonomy?

WordyMcWordface 10y ago
I expect an inflatable driver to appear and take the wheel, requiring only an occasional top up of air to keep things on the level.
- mikeash 10y ago
  I actually wonder if Airplane! is where people got the idea that "autopilot" means "the plane entirely flies itself." The bit where it's an inflatable doll is obviously satire, but maybe people thought the capabilities were real and the satire was just the doll part?
treebeard901 10y ago
For most people the word autopilot historically has meant full autonomy.
- mikeash 10y ago
  OK, but why? Such a thing has never existed on any production crewed aircraft.
msandford 10y ago
Sure, let's torture language for Tesla's benefit! Why not? I mean, we shouldn't let a silly thing like people's lives get in the way. Since you know about historical autopilots I suspect this will be redundant, but here it is anyhow: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autopilot#Modern_autopilots https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autopilot#Modern_autopilots "Modern" autopilots have been around for a while, something like 40-50 years. Sure if you go back 80 years you can find autopilots that aren't as advanced. If you want to move the goalposts like that, relative to what a reasonable person might expect, knock yourself out.
- mikeash 10y ago
  What part of that article do you think is a point against what I'm saying, exactly? Autoland and taxiing? That requires a Category III airport which many airports, even those served by airliners, aren't. It also requires pilot supervision and pilot intervention in the event of emergency. Hardly autonomous! And there are plenty of systems below that. For example: http://sarasotaavionics.com/category/autopilots/certified-autopilots http://sarasotaavionics.com/category/autopilots/certified-au... Note: single axis and 2-axis. Just like what I said it can be. But yes, the people insisting that "autopilot" does not imply autonomy, simply because no autonomous autopilot exists on any commercial aircraft, are torturing the language. Sure.
  - msandford 10y ago
    Find ~10 normal people and ask them what an autopilot does on an airplane. They're all going to say something along the lines of "it flies the airplane" and their intuition lines up with reality for about 90%+ of flights that are done with autopilots. Ask those same ~10 people what an autopilot does for a car. They'll say something like "it drives the car". Given what the Tesla Autopilot (tm) is capable of doing, their understanding of what the name means and what the software can actually do only has maybe a 20% overlap. So yes I would call that torturing language. It's an autopilot that can drive the car under a very limited set of circumstances AND it requires that Jesus (you, the driver) is always 100% alert and ready to snatch the wheel the second the car starts to do an unsafe thing. It's a totally different control problem in cars than it is in airplanes, and it's impressive that they're doing well enough to where people will trust the system enough to get into this kind of trouble. But right now it seems like Tesla's in the uncanny valley of self-driving. Good enough to make people say "huh, it works" but not so good that it works 100% of the time, always, forever, no matter the conditions, other crazy drivers and all the freak occurrences that are literally 1 in a million, but given that there are 1.1 billion car trips per day in the US will happen 1100 times a day. Even at 1 in a billion it'll still happen once per day.