7 ms·

> Why is USA better? It is attempting to face the tragedy and stop the killing. Is America attempting to stop the killing? I must have missed a chapter. Last t

by tajen 10y ago

> Why is USA better? It is attempting to face the tragedy and stop the killing. Is America attempting to stop the killing? I must have missed a chapter. Last time I've checked Obama was mourning the police officers who were killed and no national mourning was declared for the 500-600 corpses left by the police. And last time I've checked there is also still no trial for which Arabs get to die in Middle East under drone strikes. And 95% inmates in USA have used a plea bargain, which means no trial has occurd to prove whether they were guilty or not. Did I mention the Civil Asset Forfeiture program? Did I mention that even if we right the 3 examples above, the financial imbalance means that the poorer people are not properly representated in legal situations, in votes, and in the economy? I'm flummoxed the we, in the age of the full information, still take USA as a mere candidate when we talk about human rights. We can't compare USA to anything, their track record is too low.

obj-g 10y ago
No national mourning has been declared for "500-600 corpses" because we don't mourn criminals, thugs, people who reach for guns when confronted by police, people who resist arrest, etc. You act as if the police did a raid on Google and pulled all the black employees out and shot them execution style. That sort of thing is definitely not happening.
- tajen 10y ago
  > because we don't mourn criminals, thugs, people who reach for guns when confronted by police 1. 1 in 3 black people killed by police in 2015 were identified as unarmed [1]. 2. In the current example, the black victim didn't resist arrest. 3. Those 500-600 weren't criminals, because you can only say they're "criminal" after a fair trial (oh, sorry, that's something to do with "human rights", if only you could understand what that means). 4. "Not mourning criminals" or not treating them as humans is the primary reason why USA is not compliant with human rights. The reason why it is important to treat assumed criminals as humans is in my point #5. 5. The reason why people resist arrests is because they have absolutely no trust that the judiciary system will judge them fairly. Today, an innocent would rather die than enter the judiciary system [2]. [1] http://mappingpoliceviolence.org/unarmed/ http://mappingpoliceviolence.org/unarmed/ [2] Innocents are cornered into plea bargain, which is 90% of the criminal cases in USA - It means for 90% criminal cases, there was no formal proof that the accused was guilty. I know, they're black, male, muscular and poor, right!? But that doesn't mean they're guilty. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plea_bargain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plea_bargain So, once again, you "don't mourn criminals, thugs and people who reach for guns when confronted by police", except you ought to mourn the innocent, the weak and the people who are mugged by police, and you should do that because the police also does it to white people, and you have even fewer organizations to defend against that.
  - obj-g 10y ago
    What's the current example? Of course they weren't all criminals. Many of them were, though, you know, from prior arrests/crimes. Like this recent "victim" (or angel as some would have us believe): sex offender, arrest history, felon, gun in pocket, struggling against police trying to keep him on the ground, reaching for gun. But no, he's portrayed as some beloved member of the community and family man. Five kids, but basically homeless. Right. If people stopped resisting and had some respect for officers, there would be far fewer fatal shootings. If a police officer tells me to do something, I do it. That's how it works. Black people, from certain black subcultures, start in with, "Nah man why you fuckin' wit me." I really don't understand why you want to protect the dregs of society and black society who don't know how to act, rather than help improve black communities, help them educate and advance and rid themselves of their most violent and counterproductive subcultures that reward unlawful and disrespectful behavior and keep them ignorant. As a black person, you're far far far more likely to be killed by another black person than a cop. Fine, disarm the cops and move to the hood. See how wonderful it is.
    - fido2 10y ago
      I agree. I lived for a bit in downtown Detroit. People seriously need to visit the hood before they talk about the police.
      - obj-g 10y ago
        Yeah, I think if people could go on a ride along with police in a troubled community at two in the morning they'd be singing an entirely different tune.
    - TheCoelacanth 10y ago
      If the police showed respect for the lives and rights of the people in the community that they are policing, there would be far fewer people resisting and disrespecting them.
      - obj-g 10y ago
- yardie 10y ago
  Is resisting arrest an executable offense? That is certainly needs to me. No, not really. I'm black so I know they're are 2 justice systems in the US.
  - obj-g 10y ago
    If officers feel threatened, if you're aggressive, if you reach for something in your pocket, disobey them -- it certainly can turn out that way. The overwhelming majority, it may surprise you, take no pleasure in having to fire on someone. They want to go home to their families after work. I grew up in Phoenix, AZ -- I cannot step foot in South Phoenix for fear of my life. That's the truth. Their job is not to make the life of unruly and unlawful people easier, no matter what race they may be. And saying you're black as proof of something is only proof of confirmation bias.
    - yardie 10y ago
      Saying I'm black means I expect a very different approach and treatment from the police than you're typical, granola eating white liberal. I don't live in South Phoenix so why am I treated as if I do everywhere else in this country?
      - obj-g 10y ago
        You do a great disservice to all the (and there are so many) black people out there who got educated, got good jobs, built families, and realized that most people honestly don't care what color they are, when you say that you're treated so poorly everywhere in the country. I'm sorry but it's nonsense. We have a black president for god's sake. You have expectations of police as a black man, why wouldn't they have expectations of every person they stop, based on color, shoes, accent, everything. That's part of their job. You're basically saying you're justified in having a preconceived notion of how police will treat you based on your color and theirs, yet they shouldn't? When it could save their lives? Maybe some black people (i.e. the black people who don't live in the neighborhoods where these shootings go down, but spend all their time writing posts about it on Medium), should try a different approach when they've done nothing wrong and are talking to an officer: be kind and respectful and helpful. Don't be defensive and argumentative and offended. Black people who have their shit together and got out of bad neighborhoods are not getting regularly killed by police. Come on.

by tajen 10y ago

obj-g 10y ago

No national mourning has been declared for "500-600 corpses" because we don't mourn criminals, thugs, people who reach for guns when confronted by police, people who resist arrest, etc. You act as if the police did a raid on Google and pulled all the black employees out and shot them execution style. That sort of thing is definitely not happening.

tajen 10y ago
> because we don't mourn criminals, thugs, people who reach for guns when confronted by police 1. 1 in 3 black people killed by police in 2015 were identified as unarmed [1]. 2. In the current example, the black victim didn't resist arrest. 3. Those 500-600 weren't criminals, because you can only say they're "criminal" after a fair trial (oh, sorry, that's something to do with "human rights", if only you could understand what that means). 4. "Not mourning criminals" or not treating them as humans is the primary reason why USA is not compliant with human rights. The reason why it is important to treat assumed criminals as humans is in my point #5. 5. The reason why people resist arrests is because they have absolutely no trust that the judiciary system will judge them fairly. Today, an innocent would rather die than enter the judiciary system [2]. [1] http://mappingpoliceviolence.org/unarmed/ http://mappingpoliceviolence.org/unarmed/ [2] Innocents are cornered into plea bargain, which is 90% of the criminal cases in USA - It means for 90% criminal cases, there was no formal proof that the accused was guilty. I know, they're black, male, muscular and poor, right!? But that doesn't mean they're guilty. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plea_bargain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plea_bargain So, once again, you "don't mourn criminals, thugs and people who reach for guns when confronted by police", except you ought to mourn the innocent, the weak and the people who are mugged by police, and you should do that because the police also does it to white people, and you have even fewer organizations to defend against that.
- obj-g 10y ago
  What's the current example? Of course they weren't all criminals. Many of them were, though, you know, from prior arrests/crimes. Like this recent "victim" (or angel as some would have us believe): sex offender, arrest history, felon, gun in pocket, struggling against police trying to keep him on the ground, reaching for gun. But no, he's portrayed as some beloved member of the community and family man. Five kids, but basically homeless. Right. If people stopped resisting and had some respect for officers, there would be far fewer fatal shootings. If a police officer tells me to do something, I do it. That's how it works. Black people, from certain black subcultures, start in with, "Nah man why you fuckin' wit me." I really don't understand why you want to protect the dregs of society and black society who don't know how to act, rather than help improve black communities, help them educate and advance and rid themselves of their most violent and counterproductive subcultures that reward unlawful and disrespectful behavior and keep them ignorant. As a black person, you're far far far more likely to be killed by another black person than a cop. Fine, disarm the cops and move to the hood. See how wonderful it is.
  - fido2 10y ago
    I agree. I lived for a bit in downtown Detroit. People seriously need to visit the hood before they talk about the police.
    - obj-g 10y ago
      Yeah, I think if people could go on a ride along with police in a troubled community at two in the morning they'd be singing an entirely different tune.
  - TheCoelacanth 10y ago
    If the police showed respect for the lives and rights of the people in the community that they are policing, there would be far fewer people resisting and disrespecting them.
    - obj-g 10y ago
yardie 10y ago
Is resisting arrest an executable offense? That is certainly needs to me. No, not really. I'm black so I know they're are 2 justice systems in the US.
- obj-g 10y ago
  If officers feel threatened, if you're aggressive, if you reach for something in your pocket, disobey them -- it certainly can turn out that way. The overwhelming majority, it may surprise you, take no pleasure in having to fire on someone. They want to go home to their families after work. I grew up in Phoenix, AZ -- I cannot step foot in South Phoenix for fear of my life. That's the truth. Their job is not to make the life of unruly and unlawful people easier, no matter what race they may be. And saying you're black as proof of something is only proof of confirmation bias.
  - yardie 10y ago
    Saying I'm black means I expect a very different approach and treatment from the police than you're typical, granola eating white liberal. I don't live in South Phoenix so why am I treated as if I do everywhere else in this country?
    - obj-g 10y ago
      You do a great disservice to all the (and there are so many) black people out there who got educated, got good jobs, built families, and realized that most people honestly don't care what color they are, when you say that you're treated so poorly everywhere in the country. I'm sorry but it's nonsense. We have a black president for god's sake. You have expectations of police as a black man, why wouldn't they have expectations of every person they stop, based on color, shoes, accent, everything. That's part of their job. You're basically saying you're justified in having a preconceived notion of how police will treat you based on your color and theirs, yet they shouldn't? When it could save their lives? Maybe some black people (i.e. the black people who don't live in the neighborhoods where these shootings go down, but spend all their time writing posts about it on Medium), should try a different approach when they've done nothing wrong and are talking to an officer: be kind and respectful and helpful. Don't be defensive and argumentative and offended. Black people who have their shit together and got out of bad neighborhoods are not getting regularly killed by police. Come on.