11 ms·

> The fact is, you do not get radical progress pandering to western styled hypocritical democracy or "human rights". It the reality. A harsh one. So what's the

> The fact is, you do not get radical progress pandering to western styled hypocritical democracy or "human rights". It the reality. A harsh one. So what's the progress towards then? A totalitarian dictatorship that murders people? That's hardly progress of any sort. I'm quite happy to stay on my high horse if that means arguing for the rule of law and basic decency, both things which Duterte has thrown out the window in his quest to rid society of 'problems' by getting vigilantes to murder people. Hating on democracy and human rights because they're 'Western' (and usually by extension 'Imperial') really annoys me. It's a stupid, petty argument that is continuously peddled by figures in non-Western countries as a justification for doing whatever they like.

OoTheNigerian 10y ago
>It's a stupid, petty argument that is continuously peddled by figures in non-Western countries as a justification for doing whatever they like. Thomas, you may not not realise you have just written a one line thesis for the justification of colonialism. "You brutes have no idea to run a society. We'll come show you how" Of course, you most likely do not think in such nasty terms however, that is the translation. You're a 20 year old Aussie (I checked your website). You know the history of your country so I will not have to educate you on the result of preventing people "doing what they like" with regard to their culture and customs. Are you/your ways superior to the people that voted him to do EXACTLY what he is doing? You called his one week old government "totalitarian". Forgetting he was elected for a 6 year term. Is that system they like stupid and petty too? Or should they come take instructions from you? Your country?
- discordianfish 10y ago
  He doesn't talk about superiority or not letting people handle their shit. But that doesn't mean you can't criticize them.
- tomp 10y ago
  > "You brutes have no idea to run a society. We'll come show you how" That's quite an irrational leap from what he said... It could also be: "We've tried all this before, we know democracy works better, so we suggest you implement it as well."
  - OoTheNigerian 10y ago
    "We suggest..?" Lol Tell that to the people who had democracy bombed into them.
    - meira 10y ago
      Austrália and US are a great example of democracy and miscegenation. Bad lucky to the "rhodesian people", they didn't killed enough natives to win the land and Institute "democracy".
      - venomsnake 10y ago
        Mugabe is trying his best to pick up where rhodesians left off. Not sure if has surpassed them, but he is getting close.
- fsloth 10y ago
  I don't think anyone is claiming superiority either way. Britain just voted brexit in free elections mainly for stupid reasons. The point is, there are two patterns here which should be of concern: a popular leader calls for violence and vigilante style justice. In the long term this a non-stabilizing policy and likely to do a bit of economic damage. The second is that I give it a fifty-fifty that Duarte will run through a legislation that will turn him into a president-for-life. These types of scenarios usually go bad, take Zimbabwe for example. I'm not saying 'going tough' would not work in the short term - but there is no reason the president should concentrate on this single issue except to stir popular support. Just removing crime won't make rhe all other problems go away. I would claim 'going tough' is the ultimate cop out move by any statesman since it removes attention from other problems and does not help build anything new.
- pyrale 10y ago
  > Thomas, you may not not realise you have just written a one line thesis for the justification of colonialism. The point is, how do you rebut this without using human-right thesis ? If enlightenment is to be discarded, why should people not invade your country and reduce its population to slavery ?
- thomasfoster96 10y ago
  > Thomas, you may not not realise you have just written a one line thesis for the justification of colonialism. > "You brutes have no idea to run a society. We'll come show you how" And you've just proved my point about democracy and human rights being dismissed as Western colonialism. What's your alternative to democracy and human rights? A dictatorship that can have anyone it dislikes executed? Colonialism might have been what brought democracy to many parts of the world - but the two are not one and the same (in fact, colonialism was regarded by many in Europe as being opposed to human rights and democracy). Many former colonies have tossed democracy and the rule of law out the window before - and it hasn't worked particularly well. > You know the history of your country so I will not have to educate you on the result of preventing people "doing what they like" with regard to their culture and customs. Well, Australia isn't an authoritarian regime, is it? I'd say that having elections with the government's power constrained by a constitution is going quite well. > Are you/your ways superior to the people that voted him to do EXACTLY what he is doing? You called his one week old government "totalitarian". Forgetting he was elected for a 6 year term. Is that system they like stupid and petty too? Or should they come take instructions from you? Your country? Of course I think my political beliefs are superior - that's why they're my political beliefs. I don't go around supporting a political ideology I believe to be inferior. It just so happens that extrajudicial executions are fundamentally opposed to my belief in the goal of a liberal democratic society. I didn't call Duterte's government totalitarian - I agree that one week is not long enough. But if he's still asking for drug dealers and addicts to be murdered in a year I'll happily call him authoritarian, totalitarian, etc. I understand he was elected for a six year term. That doesn't justify disregarding the rule of law (the same rule of law that make those elections every six years), nor does it morally justify murder. The Philippines shouldn't be forced to take instructions from Australia - but that doesn't magically make criticism disappear. I'll criticise Duterte all I like, and I hope the Australian government criticises him too in the future.
  - meira 10y ago
    Let's get to some definitions here. Is a country democratic if it has local elections and at the same time segreggate their own and drone other nations - while removing democratically elected presidents ?
- restalis 10y ago
  "Are you/your ways superior to the people that voted him to do EXACTLY what he is doing?" Yes, people might have supported him to get results in a serious matter, but people did not (and neither they had the competence to) specify the details. Could he instead tell the masses to rattle out the drug dealers and the junkies so the law enforcement could apprehended them for future trials? No, here was a call for mass murder, plain and simple! Do the killers have to prove that the killed were drug dealers? Are the killers known at all? (You know, to be hold accountable if it happens that their victims had nothing to do with drugs?) We're talking about the difference in the means to the same desired end of drug problem. An important difference!
  - OoTheNigerian 10y ago
    He was clear with his methods BEFORE electios https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/09/philippines-election-2016-polls-open-amid-death-threats-from-presidential-hopeful https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/09/philippines-el... Not the usual bait and switch. Like was pointed out, drug dealers are free to surrender. And some have done so. http://news.abs-cbn.com/news/07/09/16/thousands-of-drug-pushers-users-in-biggest-surrender-under-duterte http://news.abs-cbn.com/news/07/09/16/thousands-of-drug-push... My own gripe is pontification of the west when it comes to the business of other countries.
    - cornholio 10y ago
      West has all the right to "pontification" since only the West has thus far delivered a high standard of living coupled with respect for human rights. There are no shortcuts, there is no magic authoritarian fairy dus you can apply and leapfrog the West, we have tried it all and it always ended in disaster. We have seen time and time again, both in our societies and in the developing world, that authoritarianism is self-sustaining and despite initial success will always lead to reduced political competition and an economic and social standstill. You can do whatever you like in your countries and vote madmen, but we will always condemn such moves, we will always refuse to abed them and we will were always proved right. The cry of colonialism is exactly what these mad men need to stay in power and you are uneducated enough to fall for it.
- wbl 10y ago
  How many widows are alive in India today because of the British?
  - disgruntled_ 10y ago
    You bring up a good point; and Pakistan has lots of extra metal to use thanks to the Americans.

OoTheNigerian 10y ago

>It's a stupid, petty argument that is continuously peddled by figures in non-Western countries as a justification for doing whatever they like. Thomas, you may not not realise you have just written a one line thesis for the justification of colonialism. "You brutes have no idea to run a society. We'll come show you how" Of course, you most likely do not think in such nasty terms however, that is the translation. You're a 20 year old Aussie (I checked your website). You know the history of your country so I will not have to educate you on the result of preventing people "doing what they like" with regard to their culture and customs. Are you/your ways superior to the people that voted him to do EXACTLY what he is doing? You called his one week old government "totalitarian". Forgetting he was elected for a 6 year term. Is that system they like stupid and petty too? Or should they come take instructions from you? Your country?

discordianfish 10y ago
He doesn't talk about superiority or not letting people handle their shit. But that doesn't mean you can't criticize them.
tomp 10y ago
> "You brutes have no idea to run a society. We'll come show you how" That's quite an irrational leap from what he said... It could also be: "We've tried all this before, we know democracy works better, so we suggest you implement it as well."
- OoTheNigerian 10y ago
  "We suggest..?" Lol Tell that to the people who had democracy bombed into them.
  - meira 10y ago
    Austrália and US are a great example of democracy and miscegenation. Bad lucky to the "rhodesian people", they didn't killed enough natives to win the land and Institute "democracy".
    - venomsnake 10y ago
      Mugabe is trying his best to pick up where rhodesians left off. Not sure if has surpassed them, but he is getting close.
fsloth 10y ago
I don't think anyone is claiming superiority either way. Britain just voted brexit in free elections mainly for stupid reasons. The point is, there are two patterns here which should be of concern: a popular leader calls for violence and vigilante style justice. In the long term this a non-stabilizing policy and likely to do a bit of economic damage. The second is that I give it a fifty-fifty that Duarte will run through a legislation that will turn him into a president-for-life. These types of scenarios usually go bad, take Zimbabwe for example. I'm not saying 'going tough' would not work in the short term - but there is no reason the president should concentrate on this single issue except to stir popular support. Just removing crime won't make rhe all other problems go away. I would claim 'going tough' is the ultimate cop out move by any statesman since it removes attention from other problems and does not help build anything new.
pyrale 10y ago
> Thomas, you may not not realise you have just written a one line thesis for the justification of colonialism. The point is, how do you rebut this without using human-right thesis ? If enlightenment is to be discarded, why should people not invade your country and reduce its population to slavery ?
thomasfoster96 10y ago
> Thomas, you may not not realise you have just written a one line thesis for the justification of colonialism. > "You brutes have no idea to run a society. We'll come show you how" And you've just proved my point about democracy and human rights being dismissed as Western colonialism. What's your alternative to democracy and human rights? A dictatorship that can have anyone it dislikes executed? Colonialism might have been what brought democracy to many parts of the world - but the two are not one and the same (in fact, colonialism was regarded by many in Europe as being opposed to human rights and democracy). Many former colonies have tossed democracy and the rule of law out the window before - and it hasn't worked particularly well. > You know the history of your country so I will not have to educate you on the result of preventing people "doing what they like" with regard to their culture and customs. Well, Australia isn't an authoritarian regime, is it? I'd say that having elections with the government's power constrained by a constitution is going quite well. > Are you/your ways superior to the people that voted him to do EXACTLY what he is doing? You called his one week old government "totalitarian". Forgetting he was elected for a 6 year term. Is that system they like stupid and petty too? Or should they come take instructions from you? Your country? Of course I think my political beliefs are superior - that's why they're my political beliefs. I don't go around supporting a political ideology I believe to be inferior. It just so happens that extrajudicial executions are fundamentally opposed to my belief in the goal of a liberal democratic society. I didn't call Duterte's government totalitarian - I agree that one week is not long enough. But if he's still asking for drug dealers and addicts to be murdered in a year I'll happily call him authoritarian, totalitarian, etc. I understand he was elected for a six year term. That doesn't justify disregarding the rule of law (the same rule of law that make those elections every six years), nor does it morally justify murder. The Philippines shouldn't be forced to take instructions from Australia - but that doesn't magically make criticism disappear. I'll criticise Duterte all I like, and I hope the Australian government criticises him too in the future.
- meira 10y ago
  Let's get to some definitions here. Is a country democratic if it has local elections and at the same time segreggate their own and drone other nations - while removing democratically elected presidents ?
restalis 10y ago
"Are you/your ways superior to the people that voted him to do EXACTLY what he is doing?" Yes, people might have supported him to get results in a serious matter, but people did not (and neither they had the competence to) specify the details. Could he instead tell the masses to rattle out the drug dealers and the junkies so the law enforcement could apprehended them for future trials? No, here was a call for mass murder, plain and simple! Do the killers have to prove that the killed were drug dealers? Are the killers known at all? (You know, to be hold accountable if it happens that their victims had nothing to do with drugs?) We're talking about the difference in the means to the same desired end of drug problem. An important difference!
- OoTheNigerian 10y ago
  He was clear with his methods BEFORE electios https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/09/philippines-election-2016-polls-open-amid-death-threats-from-presidential-hopeful https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/09/philippines-el... Not the usual bait and switch. Like was pointed out, drug dealers are free to surrender. And some have done so. http://news.abs-cbn.com/news/07/09/16/thousands-of-drug-pushers-users-in-biggest-surrender-under-duterte http://news.abs-cbn.com/news/07/09/16/thousands-of-drug-push... My own gripe is pontification of the west when it comes to the business of other countries.
  - cornholio 10y ago
    West has all the right to "pontification" since only the West has thus far delivered a high standard of living coupled with respect for human rights. There are no shortcuts, there is no magic authoritarian fairy dus you can apply and leapfrog the West, we have tried it all and it always ended in disaster. We have seen time and time again, both in our societies and in the developing world, that authoritarianism is self-sustaining and despite initial success will always lead to reduced political competition and an economic and social standstill. You can do whatever you like in your countries and vote madmen, but we will always condemn such moves, we will always refuse to abed them and we will were always proved right. The cry of colonialism is exactly what these mad men need to stay in power and you are uneducated enough to fall for it.
wbl 10y ago
How many widows are alive in India today because of the British?
- disgruntled_ 10y ago
  You bring up a good point; and Pakistan has lots of extra metal to use thanks to the Americans.