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You do know Tesla has the highest safety rating of any car ever rated in history right? https://www.teslamotors.com/blog/tesla-model-s-achieves-best-safety-rat

by dayaz36 10y ago

You do know Tesla has the highest safety rating of any car ever rated in history right? https://www.teslamotors.com/blog/tesla-model-s-achieves-best-safety-rating-any-car-ever-tested https://www.teslamotors.com/blog/tesla-model-s-achieves-best...

kalleboo 10y ago
In 2013. These days there are higher rated cars in Euro NCAP. These ratings also don't test the assist features in-depth.
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mattlondon 10y ago
Er - that is wrong. 2014 Model S got 5-star/82%[0] (where 100% is best) adult occupant protection on EuroNCAP. For comparison, the smaller, lighter, cheaper 2015 Honda Jazz got 5-star/93%[1] Other cars are significantly better than this [2]. E.g. 2016 Alfa Romeo Giulia 5-star/98%, 2016 Toyota Prius 5-star/92%, 2015 Volvo XC90 5-star/97%, 2014 Porsche Macan 5-star/88%. I could go on, but the Model S is not the safest car ever tested - it has approximately the same level of crashworthiess as the 2014 Smart Fortwo (4-star/82%) [3] according to EuroNCAP when looking at adult occupant safety. Cars have come a long way in the past decade or two though - its amazing to see "small" cars like the Jazz where they dont even get a cracked windscreen when basically driving into a wall at 40mph. For comparison check out the 2000 Citroen Saxo fold up like a tin can... http://www.euroncap.com/en/ratings-rewards/latest-safety-ratings/en/results/citro%C3%ABn/saxo/15511 http://www.euroncap.com/en/ratings-rewards/latest-safety-rat... [0] - http://www.euroncap.com/en/results/tesla/model-s/7897 http://www.euroncap.com/en/results/tesla/model-s/7897 [1] - http://www.euroncap.com/en/results/honda/jazz/21484 http://www.euroncap.com/en/results/honda/jazz/21484 [2] - http://www.euroncap.com/ http://www.euroncap.com/ [3] - http://www.euroncap.com/en/results/smart/fortwo/7894 http://www.euroncap.com/en/results/smart/fortwo/7894
- icc97 10y ago
  The differences between the Tesla and the Jazz are a bit strange. The main difference in score between the two appears to be the side impact from a pole - which is all 'good' for the Jazz, but it was 'weak' for the Tesla in the body section. But if you look at the two videos of the cars, after the pole crash, Tesla is almost completely intact (29 kph) [1] and the Jazz is half destroyed (32 kph) [2]. The Jazz impact was 10% faster - but the difference in damage is remarkable. It's also worth noting that where as this child rating is higher for the Jazz - the actual 'Crash Test Performance' was rated as Good for the Tesla but Adequate for the Jazz. The lower test score for the Tesla is because they don't have Isofix installed. [1]: https://youtu.be/7uhhYKJWEBw?t=1m4s [2]: https://youtu.be/PHptsZglju8?t=2m18s
  - tdaltonc 10y ago
    The point of a crash test is not to show that the vehicle is super rigid and impervious to damage. It is to show that a human inside the car is safe. To that end, the car should "crumple." It shouldn't remain 100% rigid, and it should fall apart like tissue paper. It should absorb as much kinetic energy as possible so that the human doesn't have to. The Jazz is doing the right thing.
- tdaltonc 10y ago
  Tesla was talking about their NHTSA VSS, your talking about EURO NCAP. I'm not sure how to compare the two.
NamTaf 10y ago
I do know that (to the extent that it's true). I also know that not driving head-first into a truck that's turning across in front of the driver, or into a stationary car when the one in front of you swerves around it, is even safer than having the highest safety rating. Don't get me wrong - Tesla engineers are talented engineers. The culture of the company however is not suited to building mass-production cars. It's trying to put the Silicon Valley philosophy of rushing towards the future ahead of taking measured, reliably proven steps. You don't build buildings or car structures via an agile methodology using customer feedback. Waterfall-style approaches are used because hammering out the long tail of risk is important. Car software technology must necessarily be no different.
- JoeAltmaier 10y ago
  Yet there's little evidence that any other car company is holding their car-control software to any high standard. They don't release it (for peer review) because they regard it as valuable IP. Then when forced to like Toyota did in the case of the Camry, its found to be the biggest pile of irresponsible spaghetti code imaginable. So no, Tesla is not materially different in process. Perhaps in talent - Tesla has actual experienced programmers involved, instead of solely relying on junior folks for the bread-and-butter coding.
  - danso 10y ago
    Do you have links that support the assertion that Toyota was "solely relying on junior folks for the bread-and-butter coding"?
    - JoeAltmaier 10y ago
      No only my cultural experience with foreign engineers. Anybody over 25 still doing engineering/coding is considered a failure. Their career path includes management early. All the engineers I work with from Japan, Singapore, China are young and inexperienced. And they are only allowed to report success up the chain. Management is fed a constant diet of sweet crap.

by dayaz36 10y ago

kalleboo 10y ago

In 2013. These days there are higher rated cars in Euro NCAP. These ratings also don't test the assist features in-depth.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

mattlondon 10y ago

Er - that is wrong. 2014 Model S got 5-star/82%[0] (where 100% is best) adult occupant protection on EuroNCAP. For comparison, the smaller, lighter, cheaper 2015 Honda Jazz got 5-star/93%[1] Other cars are significantly better than this [2]. E.g. 2016 Alfa Romeo Giulia 5-star/98%, 2016 Toyota Prius 5-star/92%, 2015 Volvo XC90 5-star/97%, 2014 Porsche Macan 5-star/88%. I could go on, but the Model S is not the safest car ever tested - it has approximately the same level of crashworthiess as the 2014 Smart Fortwo (4-star/82%) [3] according to EuroNCAP when looking at adult occupant safety. Cars have come a long way in the past decade or two though - its amazing to see "small" cars like the Jazz where they dont even get a cracked windscreen when basically driving into a wall at 40mph. For comparison check out the 2000 Citroen Saxo fold up like a tin can... http://www.euroncap.com/en/ratings-rewards/latest-safety-ratings/en/results/citro%C3%ABn/saxo/15511 http://www.euroncap.com/en/ratings-rewards/latest-safety-rat... [0] - http://www.euroncap.com/en/results/tesla/model-s/7897 http://www.euroncap.com/en/results/tesla/model-s/7897 [1] - http://www.euroncap.com/en/results/honda/jazz/21484 http://www.euroncap.com/en/results/honda/jazz/21484 [2] - http://www.euroncap.com/ http://www.euroncap.com/ [3] - http://www.euroncap.com/en/results/smart/fortwo/7894 http://www.euroncap.com/en/results/smart/fortwo/7894

icc97 10y ago
The differences between the Tesla and the Jazz are a bit strange. The main difference in score between the two appears to be the side impact from a pole - which is all 'good' for the Jazz, but it was 'weak' for the Tesla in the body section. But if you look at the two videos of the cars, after the pole crash, Tesla is almost completely intact (29 kph) [1] and the Jazz is half destroyed (32 kph) [2]. The Jazz impact was 10% faster - but the difference in damage is remarkable. It's also worth noting that where as this child rating is higher for the Jazz - the actual 'Crash Test Performance' was rated as Good for the Tesla but Adequate for the Jazz. The lower test score for the Tesla is because they don't have Isofix installed. [1]: https://youtu.be/7uhhYKJWEBw?t=1m4s [2]: https://youtu.be/PHptsZglju8?t=2m18s
- tdaltonc 10y ago
  The point of a crash test is not to show that the vehicle is super rigid and impervious to damage. It is to show that a human inside the car is safe. To that end, the car should "crumple." It shouldn't remain 100% rigid, and it should fall apart like tissue paper. It should absorb as much kinetic energy as possible so that the human doesn't have to. The Jazz is doing the right thing.
tdaltonc 10y ago
Tesla was talking about their NHTSA VSS, your talking about EURO NCAP. I'm not sure how to compare the two.

NamTaf 10y ago

I do know that (to the extent that it's true). I also know that not driving head-first into a truck that's turning across in front of the driver, or into a stationary car when the one in front of you swerves around it, is even safer than having the highest safety rating. Don't get me wrong - Tesla engineers are talented engineers. The culture of the company however is not suited to building mass-production cars. It's trying to put the Silicon Valley philosophy of rushing towards the future ahead of taking measured, reliably proven steps. You don't build buildings or car structures via an agile methodology using customer feedback. Waterfall-style approaches are used because hammering out the long tail of risk is important. Car software technology must necessarily be no different.

JoeAltmaier 10y ago
Yet there's little evidence that any other car company is holding their car-control software to any high standard. They don't release it (for peer review) because they regard it as valuable IP. Then when forced to like Toyota did in the case of the Camry, its found to be the biggest pile of irresponsible spaghetti code imaginable. So no, Tesla is not materially different in process. Perhaps in talent - Tesla has actual experienced programmers involved, instead of solely relying on junior folks for the bread-and-butter coding.
- danso 10y ago
  Do you have links that support the assertion that Toyota was "solely relying on junior folks for the bread-and-butter coding"?
  - JoeAltmaier 10y ago
    No only my cultural experience with foreign engineers. Anybody over 25 still doing engineering/coding is considered a failure. Their career path includes management early. All the engineers I work with from Japan, Singapore, China are young and inexperienced. And they are only allowed to report success up the chain. Management is fed a constant diet of sweet crap.