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The US has increased the regime's oppressive effects, though. The embargo has created a dearth of medical supplies & knowledge, has negatively impacted nutriti

The US has increased the regime's oppressive effects, though. The embargo has created a dearth of medical supplies & knowledge, has negatively impacted nutrition, lack of resources, lack of tourism dollars, and provides a bogeyman for the regime to blame for all its ails. It has helped repress and impoverish the people more than anything else. The United Nations General Assembly has passed a resolution every year since 1992 opposing it. It's possible that, like China, the oppressive effects of Communism could have been lessened (even if just a little) under the benefits of trade with a Capitalist democracy. Medical crises would have been dealt with quicker, and they would have had more cash on hand from tourism to invest in agriculture (or at the very least, import more food). And you may feel differently about this, but I think the ban on travel really sucked ass for Cuban families who couldn't visit their relatives, and the bans on transfer of money to family members in Cuba. But that's not really a regime thing, that was just the US being dicks.

bmmayer1 10y ago
> like China, the oppressive effects of Communism could have been lessened (even if just a little) under the benefits of trade with a Capitalist democracy The oppressive effects of communism were lessened because China lessened communism by introducing free market reforms. It wasn't just trade with capitalist nations that improved the welfare of China and its people, it was becoming more capitalist a nation itself.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- peterwwillis 10y ago
  Right... and it was becoming a more capitalist nation (technically a socialist market economy, otherwise known as state capitalism) due to influences by its Capitalist trade partners. In a single year (1978-1979) new party leader Deng Xiaoping led economic reforms to the PRC, signed an accord with Jimmy Carter for the US to officially recognize the PRC, and attracted new business from Boeing and Coca-Cola. More reforms followed soon after. But it is absolutely clear that they thought the Capitalist model was what worked and they wanted a form of it, and used trade with the US as its beginning. I make this distinction about the US influencing them because without the successful model (and attractive potential partner) of the US, the push for a market economy may not have worked. Cuba could have done the same, except we were still giving them the finger.
vkou 10y ago
With respect to oppressive effects, how well exactly has capitalism (Or, if we want to split hairs, imperialism) worked out for Cuba's Carribean and Latin American neighbours? Cuba is towards the top of that list, by life expectancy, caloric intake, GDP per capita, literacy, child mortality. Cuba has a lot of problems... But still it turned out far better then, say, Haiti, or Honduras ever will be, despite all the benefits of open markets. This is consistently missing from the narrative.
- RockyMcNuts 10y ago
  If you're at the bottom of the ladder (possibly Afro-Cuban), you're better off in Cuba than most other Latin American countries. If you're one of the educated white folks whose family lost a plantation or Havana mansion, I can understand you hate the Castros. It's like getting kicked out of Paris and 60 years later the city is literally crumbling. For a while it was like a civilization trapped in amber but infrastructure has gone over the line into complete decay. On the plus side is good education, good health care, not a lot of crime, until recently a guarantee of a job that would keep body and soul together. The Castros still have > 50% popular support, they have managed to maintain control of the country and the armed forces despite all their failures, foreign military adventures, withdrawal of Russian support, constant pressure from the USA. It's a very mixed bag but not the one-sided disaster we constantly hear about from people who make a cottage industry of selling that story (someone has got the US to spend $500m on broadcasts to Cuba no one can receive, and that's just one example). Moving to a more liberalized economy and attracting foreign investment without causing social unrest, giving up control will be a challenge, and the fact that all the educated people want to leave will not make it easier. these were interesting http://fusion.net/story/116226/historic-poll-top-25-findings-from-major-cuba-survey/ http://fusion.net/story/116226/historic-poll-top-25-findings... http://ftalphaville.ft.com/2016/03/21/2157021/the-us-and-cuba-incrementalism-reversal-risk-and-the-dictators-dilemma/ http://ftalphaville.ft.com/2016/03/21/2157021/the-us-and-cub... http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/cuba-after-obama-left http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/cuba-after-obama... https://medium.com/@dtemkin/spending-the-last-week-in-cuba-was-the-single-most-educational-trip-in-my-life-4d6a628760ec#.id0azu3z2 https://medium.com/@dtemkin/spending-the-last-week-in-cuba-w...

bmmayer1 10y ago

> like China, the oppressive effects of Communism could have been lessened (even if just a little) under the benefits of trade with a Capitalist democracy The oppressive effects of communism were lessened because China lessened communism by introducing free market reforms. It wasn't just trade with capitalist nations that improved the welfare of China and its people, it was becoming more capitalist a nation itself.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
peterwwillis 10y ago
Right... and it was becoming a more capitalist nation (technically a socialist market economy, otherwise known as state capitalism) due to influences by its Capitalist trade partners. In a single year (1978-1979) new party leader Deng Xiaoping led economic reforms to the PRC, signed an accord with Jimmy Carter for the US to officially recognize the PRC, and attracted new business from Boeing and Coca-Cola. More reforms followed soon after. But it is absolutely clear that they thought the Capitalist model was what worked and they wanted a form of it, and used trade with the US as its beginning. I make this distinction about the US influencing them because without the successful model (and attractive potential partner) of the US, the push for a market economy may not have worked. Cuba could have done the same, except we were still giving them the finger.

vkou 10y ago

With respect to oppressive effects, how well exactly has capitalism (Or, if we want to split hairs, imperialism) worked out for Cuba's Carribean and Latin American neighbours? Cuba is towards the top of that list, by life expectancy, caloric intake, GDP per capita, literacy, child mortality. Cuba has a lot of problems... But still it turned out far better then, say, Haiti, or Honduras ever will be, despite all the benefits of open markets. This is consistently missing from the narrative.

RockyMcNuts 10y ago
If you're at the bottom of the ladder (possibly Afro-Cuban), you're better off in Cuba than most other Latin American countries. If you're one of the educated white folks whose family lost a plantation or Havana mansion, I can understand you hate the Castros. It's like getting kicked out of Paris and 60 years later the city is literally crumbling. For a while it was like a civilization trapped in amber but infrastructure has gone over the line into complete decay. On the plus side is good education, good health care, not a lot of crime, until recently a guarantee of a job that would keep body and soul together. The Castros still have > 50% popular support, they have managed to maintain control of the country and the armed forces despite all their failures, foreign military adventures, withdrawal of Russian support, constant pressure from the USA. It's a very mixed bag but not the one-sided disaster we constantly hear about from people who make a cottage industry of selling that story (someone has got the US to spend $500m on broadcasts to Cuba no one can receive, and that's just one example). Moving to a more liberalized economy and attracting foreign investment without causing social unrest, giving up control will be a challenge, and the fact that all the educated people want to leave will not make it easier. these were interesting http://fusion.net/story/116226/historic-poll-top-25-findings-from-major-cuba-survey/ http://fusion.net/story/116226/historic-poll-top-25-findings... http://ftalphaville.ft.com/2016/03/21/2157021/the-us-and-cuba-incrementalism-reversal-risk-and-the-dictators-dilemma/ http://ftalphaville.ft.com/2016/03/21/2157021/the-us-and-cub... http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/cuba-after-obama-left http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/cuba-after-obama... https://medium.com/@dtemkin/spending-the-last-week-in-cuba-was-the-single-most-educational-trip-in-my-life-4d6a628760ec#.id0azu3z2 https://medium.com/@dtemkin/spending-the-last-week-in-cuba-w...