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Oh, so people who pick apart your flawed plans should just shut the fuck up and let you agitate for a global revolution? Because that's what you are doing. You

by blahi 10y ago

Oh, so people who pick apart your flawed plans should just shut the fuck up and let you agitate for a global revolution? Because that's what you are doing. You did not argue for better education. You argued for a change in the financial system. One that requires a massive change in people's reasoning abilities in order to work out as advertised. "Oh hey guys, let's do this very cool thing where we will all live way better. just don't read the fine print which says that everybody needs to be very smart and educated in order for all of this to work." And when they follow you and your idea touches reality and your plan shatters? What then? Because we have it very good now and you want to improve it a bit, but if (when) you fail we will have it A LOT worse. Risk vs. reward is not there at all. If you want to improve things, go for it. But you are proposing to cure a common cold with a surgery.

ZenoArrow 10y ago
> "Oh, so people who pick apart your flawed plans should just shut the fuck up and let you agitate for a global revolution?" I'm all for debate, but if you were interested in debate before you wouldn't have dismissed it as 'impossible' without explanation. Just because you say something is impossible doesn't make it so, you have to elaborate on why. If you're interested in engaging in the implementation details now I'm all for a debate. > "You did not argue for better education. You argued for a change in the financial system." I argued for both. I argued for a change in the financial system, and as I elaborated on how I could see this come to pass, I argued for better education. To me there is no conflict, to have an effective democracy you need an informed populace, otherwise people are too easily swayed by demagoguery. If you think this represents a shift in my argument, I'd invite you to read my comment history, I have been clear with my position on how the mass media plays a big role in influencing the masses. Breaking through the misinformation spread by the mass media is an important prerequisite for societal change that benefits the many. In terms of how to break through media manipulation, I could go into implementation details if you're interested. > "Because we have it very good now" Maybe in your world, but economic inequality is an increasingly pressing issue, and one that needs to be addressed. Take a look at this story... http://www.oxfam.org.uk/media-centre/press-releases/2016/01/62-people-own-same-as-half-world-says-oxfam-inequality-report-davos-world-economic-forum http://www.oxfam.org.uk/media-centre/press-releases/2016/01/... If that is accurate, 62 people have the same level of wealth as half the population of the world. Do you recognise the types of problems that concentration of power can create?
- blahi 10y ago
  >I argued for both. I argued for a change in the financial system, and as I elaborated on how I could see this come to pass But see, the education comes first. You don't promise people sunshine and rainbows and then give them a condition. They will not hear about the condition. They heard about the prize and all they hear is the prize. And this is how so many tin-foil hatters are bread, convinced of lizard people puppeteering the whole planet in their spare time. Bullshit like Zeigeist. Concatenations with half the facts missing. Straight to the conclusions. This is the route you take when you want to trick people, not when you want to educate them! And no, I actually don't see the problem with income inequality. People in general are living better. I don't particularly care that Mark Zuckerberg has a million times more money then me. I will be able to send to send my son to the same university as his. So who cares and why? Even if there are problems, you are curing a cold with surgery. it's all about risk/reward. And your ratio sucks. Big time.
  - ZenoArrow 10y ago
    Education of the masses comes first, but there's no problem in an individual who has researched an issue discussing it before the education of the masses has taken place. As for your claim that you don't see the problems that come from income inequality, the rich have two main advantages: 1. They can more easily buy influence in government to have legislation passed that favours them over others. 2. They can take greater control of material assets, and alter the power dynamic in a market. Do you see these as problems?
- blahi 10y ago
  So you ask for evidence about painfully obvious things, but you feel like you can make unsubstantiated claims when there is evidence that directly contradicts those claims? Even when I addressed them already? All the rich people were against Brexit but it still happened, didn't it? There is no one monolithic lizard people cabal that is out there to get you. There are many, many different groups with competing interests and opinions. This is why capitalism has been so good and has brought us so much prosperity. Real power cannot be usurped. Everybody competes. And this is why I cast doubt on your political acumen. You seem to have 0 consideration for competing interests and opinions. In your head everything happens in a vacuum and all will be OK if everybody was just a little bit more like you. Well, that's not going to happen. You can pout and scream unjustice and agitate people with beautiful promises and at the end of the day you will either have accomplished nothing or you will have crashed the best period in human history. The kind of change you want requires a gradual improvement, not a revolution. Shift in the generations to come, not asking people to make a massive jump in their reasoning RIGHT NOW. And for all we know, the generations to come have a shift in their thinking. There's evidence for that. Milenials have a very different value chain the generations before them.

by blahi 10y ago

ZenoArrow 10y ago

> "Oh, so people who pick apart your flawed plans should just shut the fuck up and let you agitate for a global revolution?" I'm all for debate, but if you were interested in debate before you wouldn't have dismissed it as 'impossible' without explanation. Just because you say something is impossible doesn't make it so, you have to elaborate on why. If you're interested in engaging in the implementation details now I'm all for a debate. > "You did not argue for better education. You argued for a change in the financial system." I argued for both. I argued for a change in the financial system, and as I elaborated on how I could see this come to pass, I argued for better education. To me there is no conflict, to have an effective democracy you need an informed populace, otherwise people are too easily swayed by demagoguery. If you think this represents a shift in my argument, I'd invite you to read my comment history, I have been clear with my position on how the mass media plays a big role in influencing the masses. Breaking through the misinformation spread by the mass media is an important prerequisite for societal change that benefits the many. In terms of how to break through media manipulation, I could go into implementation details if you're interested. > "Because we have it very good now" Maybe in your world, but economic inequality is an increasingly pressing issue, and one that needs to be addressed. Take a look at this story... http://www.oxfam.org.uk/media-centre/press-releases/2016/01/62-people-own-same-as-half-world-says-oxfam-inequality-report-davos-world-economic-forum http://www.oxfam.org.uk/media-centre/press-releases/2016/01/... If that is accurate, 62 people have the same level of wealth as half the population of the world. Do you recognise the types of problems that concentration of power can create?

blahi 10y ago
>I argued for both. I argued for a change in the financial system, and as I elaborated on how I could see this come to pass But see, the education comes first. You don't promise people sunshine and rainbows and then give them a condition. They will not hear about the condition. They heard about the prize and all they hear is the prize. And this is how so many tin-foil hatters are bread, convinced of lizard people puppeteering the whole planet in their spare time. Bullshit like Zeigeist. Concatenations with half the facts missing. Straight to the conclusions. This is the route you take when you want to trick people, not when you want to educate them! And no, I actually don't see the problem with income inequality. People in general are living better. I don't particularly care that Mark Zuckerberg has a million times more money then me. I will be able to send to send my son to the same university as his. So who cares and why? Even if there are problems, you are curing a cold with surgery. it's all about risk/reward. And your ratio sucks. Big time.
- ZenoArrow 10y ago
  Education of the masses comes first, but there's no problem in an individual who has researched an issue discussing it before the education of the masses has taken place. As for your claim that you don't see the problems that come from income inequality, the rich have two main advantages: 1. They can more easily buy influence in government to have legislation passed that favours them over others. 2. They can take greater control of material assets, and alter the power dynamic in a market. Do you see these as problems?
blahi 10y ago
So you ask for evidence about painfully obvious things, but you feel like you can make unsubstantiated claims when there is evidence that directly contradicts those claims? Even when I addressed them already? All the rich people were against Brexit but it still happened, didn't it? There is no one monolithic lizard people cabal that is out there to get you. There are many, many different groups with competing interests and opinions. This is why capitalism has been so good and has brought us so much prosperity. Real power cannot be usurped. Everybody competes. And this is why I cast doubt on your political acumen. You seem to have 0 consideration for competing interests and opinions. In your head everything happens in a vacuum and all will be OK if everybody was just a little bit more like you. Well, that's not going to happen. You can pout and scream unjustice and agitate people with beautiful promises and at the end of the day you will either have accomplished nothing or you will have crashed the best period in human history. The kind of change you want requires a gradual improvement, not a revolution. Shift in the generations to come, not asking people to make a massive jump in their reasoning RIGHT NOW. And for all we know, the generations to come have a shift in their thinking. There's evidence for that. Milenials have a very different value chain the generations before them.