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People do stupid stuff all the time and while I agree that putting people in prison for talking about stuff is harsh, china must keep much worse things from hap

People do stupid stuff all the time and while I agree that putting people in prison for talking about stuff is harsh, china must keep much worse things from happening to protect the lives of over a billion people. That depends on what your society values most of all. In China, "stability" is king, in the same way that the U.S. values "freedom" over everything else. This shapes what tradeoffs and sacrifices your society is generally ok with, and what course of action its government generally takes. However, just because a country has chosen a particular value, it doesn't mean that that value is the objectively best for that country. It's impossible to have some sort of rational discussion of this, though. :) So no, it is not true that China must censor political dissidents, and we don't know if not doing so would be catastrophic, it's just that the Chinese people prefer that their government does so.

fnid2 17y ago
That's my point: moral relativism. It's not our place to say how another country should be run by another people. It's arrogant and ignorant. Imagine Baidu censoring stuff in the U.S. We'd be just as angry as they are about google not censoring stuff. I will also argue that freedom is not what is valued in the united states. Freedom for the ruling class is valued, but it's not valued for native americans. It's not valued for Palestinians. It's not valued for people who smoke dope. The United States is not a "free" country. Its prisons are defined by wealth. Its freedoms are defined by political clout. Its laws are set by the rich, broken by the rich, and enforced on the lower class. Freedom of speech in this country is defined by what is acceptable to those in power. If the speech promotes what those in power want, it is distributed. The media controls speech in this country -- not the people. It doesn't really matter anyway. How many people speak out about the war? It still started because the liars were louder. So does it matter?
- henrikschroder 17y ago
  It's not our place to say how another country should be run by another people. There's a difference between dictating what others should do and leading by example. Google doesn't care what other search engines in China do, they're just saying that they do not wish to censor anything on their search engine. If this is unacceptable to the Chinese government, they should just kick Google out instead of whining about it. Of course multi-national companies are coloured by their original culture, this cannot be a surprise to anyone, yet that is exactly what the Chinese government is acting like.
  - fnid2 17y ago
    China is being really nice about it, IMO. If it was an ordinary citizen running a search engine, they'd be in jail -- or suicided.
    - secret 17y ago
      And that's a good thing?
      - fnid2 17y ago
        The alternative is some dead or imprisoned google employees, so yeah, I'd say it's better for them to be nice about it.

fnid2 17y ago

That's my point: moral relativism. It's not our place to say how another country should be run by another people. It's arrogant and ignorant. Imagine Baidu censoring stuff in the U.S. We'd be just as angry as they are about google not censoring stuff. I will also argue that freedom is not what is valued in the united states. Freedom for the ruling class is valued, but it's not valued for native americans. It's not valued for Palestinians. It's not valued for people who smoke dope. The United States is not a "free" country. Its prisons are defined by wealth. Its freedoms are defined by political clout. Its laws are set by the rich, broken by the rich, and enforced on the lower class. Freedom of speech in this country is defined by what is acceptable to those in power. If the speech promotes what those in power want, it is distributed. The media controls speech in this country -- not the people. It doesn't really matter anyway. How many people speak out about the war? It still started because the liars were louder. So does it matter?

henrikschroder 17y ago
It's not our place to say how another country should be run by another people. There's a difference between dictating what others should do and leading by example. Google doesn't care what other search engines in China do, they're just saying that they do not wish to censor anything on their search engine. If this is unacceptable to the Chinese government, they should just kick Google out instead of whining about it. Of course multi-national companies are coloured by their original culture, this cannot be a surprise to anyone, yet that is exactly what the Chinese government is acting like.
- fnid2 17y ago
  China is being really nice about it, IMO. If it was an ordinary citizen running a search engine, they'd be in jail -- or suicided.
  - secret 17y ago
    And that's a good thing?
    - fnid2 17y ago
      The alternative is some dead or imprisoned google employees, so yeah, I'd say it's better for them to be nice about it.