5 ms·

Have you ever really thought about what it takes to run a country with 1.5 billion people in it? People are not rational. Just click on this link and see what

by fnid2 17y ago

Have you ever really thought about what it takes to run a country with 1.5 billion people in it? People are not rational. Just click on this link and see what you get: http://duckduckgo.com/?q=the+world%27s+oldest+civilization http://duckduckgo.com/?q=the+world%27s+oldest+civilization Google has been around for 15 years. They come from a country that is 230 years old -- and is dying. People aren't rational. People do stupid stuff all the time and while I agree that putting people in prison for talking about stuff is harsh (the U.S. does it too), china must keep much worse things from happening to protect the lives of over a billion people. They've been doing it successfully for thousands of years and it seems quite arrogant and ignorant to suggest that it is a good idea for some punk from across the pond to set the level of discourse necessary for China to continue operating effectively. If you want to see what "open communication" provides, just look at the U.S. Did open communication stop an illegal war in Iraq? Did it prevent the destruction of our 200 year old constitutional rights? Did it stop a dotcom bubble or a housing bubble or a gold bubble? Has it promoted a study of history or learning or rational thought? No. It is really beyond me why people from America, one of the biggest pilferers in the world, murderers in the world, and secretive organizations in the world would expect that increasing anything in china the way google is trying to do will lead to something good. It hasn't led to something good in the U.S. It's led to misery, suffering, and global catastrophe. China is going to squash google like the little bug they are.

tumult 17y ago
Your anti-Google rage is absurd and also very visible in previous comments you've made in other threads.
- fnid2 17y ago
  I've been anti-google for years. I'm not shy about stating it. It's not absurd. It's actually quite well reasoned.
henrikschroder 17y ago
People do stupid stuff all the time and while I agree that putting people in prison for talking about stuff is harsh, china must keep much worse things from happening to protect the lives of over a billion people. That depends on what your society values most of all. In China, "stability" is king, in the same way that the U.S. values "freedom" over everything else. This shapes what tradeoffs and sacrifices your society is generally ok with, and what course of action its government generally takes. However, just because a country has chosen a particular value, it doesn't mean that that value is the objectively best for that country. It's impossible to have some sort of rational discussion of this, though. :) So no, it is not true that China must censor political dissidents, and we don't know if not doing so would be catastrophic, it's just that the Chinese people prefer that their government does so.
- fnid2 17y ago
  That's my point: moral relativism. It's not our place to say how another country should be run by another people. It's arrogant and ignorant. Imagine Baidu censoring stuff in the U.S. We'd be just as angry as they are about google not censoring stuff. I will also argue that freedom is not what is valued in the united states. Freedom for the ruling class is valued, but it's not valued for native americans. It's not valued for Palestinians. It's not valued for people who smoke dope. The United States is not a "free" country. Its prisons are defined by wealth. Its freedoms are defined by political clout. Its laws are set by the rich, broken by the rich, and enforced on the lower class. Freedom of speech in this country is defined by what is acceptable to those in power. If the speech promotes what those in power want, it is distributed. The media controls speech in this country -- not the people. It doesn't really matter anyway. How many people speak out about the war? It still started because the liars were louder. So does it matter?
  - henrikschroder 17y ago
    It's not our place to say how another country should be run by another people. There's a difference between dictating what others should do and leading by example. Google doesn't care what other search engines in China do, they're just saying that they do not wish to censor anything on their search engine. If this is unacceptable to the Chinese government, they should just kick Google out instead of whining about it. Of course multi-national companies are coloured by their original culture, this cannot be a surprise to anyone, yet that is exactly what the Chinese government is acting like.
    - fnid2 17y ago
      China is being really nice about it, IMO. If it was an ordinary citizen running a search engine, they'd be in jail -- or suicided.
      - secret 17y ago
        And that's a good thing?
dublinclontarf 17y ago
Worlds oldest civilisation? The CCP is not another dynasty and is only 60 at best. What the CCP has been doing is keeping itself in power and keeping the gravy-train rolling. Life in the U.S is far better for most than in China. And the last time the CCP tried to run the country up to 80Million died, now they let most things run themselves and just collect the protection money. You sound like one of the 50cent gang, how much did the CCP pay you for this post, and do you get more for it being in English?
- fnid2 17y ago
  It's far better for Americans, but it's far worse for countless individuals around the world. Look, my life is not better because thousands of innocent people are dying in Iraq. I suffer. My mind is full of regret that my life is what it is due to torture, murder, and the theft and destruction of other people's property. It's wrong and our society should hold our collective heads in shame. I am not saying what china is doing is right. I am saying it is wrong for us to go into their country, profit off of their citizens and break their laws. If you want to take their money, obey the law. This is why I am anti-google. They are the example that proves we are a lawless nation. Google has been allowed to break the law repeatedly and continue to profit. If any individual around here broke the laws that google breaks every day -- making millions of dollars for doing it -- we'd be fined or in prison.
  - dublinclontarf 17y ago
    Pfffsssht. you sound like China isn't full of arbitrary laws that make it impossible to be "legal". You also sound like the people living there are represented by their government, as opposed to being ruled by it. Note, it's the "laws" of the CCP's dictatorship, not the citizens. And all Google is doing is attempting to operate without complete political censorship, of things that embarrass the CCP. Your a shill, probably a poorly paid one.
    - fnid2 17y ago
      I was working for the 888 karma points. Please neg me so I can be more lucky.

by fnid2 17y ago

tumult 17y ago

Your anti-Google rage is absurd and also very visible in previous comments you've made in other threads.

fnid2 17y ago
I've been anti-google for years. I'm not shy about stating it. It's not absurd. It's actually quite well reasoned.

henrikschroder 17y ago

People do stupid stuff all the time and while I agree that putting people in prison for talking about stuff is harsh, china must keep much worse things from happening to protect the lives of over a billion people. That depends on what your society values most of all. In China, "stability" is king, in the same way that the U.S. values "freedom" over everything else. This shapes what tradeoffs and sacrifices your society is generally ok with, and what course of action its government generally takes. However, just because a country has chosen a particular value, it doesn't mean that that value is the objectively best for that country. It's impossible to have some sort of rational discussion of this, though. :) So no, it is not true that China must censor political dissidents, and we don't know if not doing so would be catastrophic, it's just that the Chinese people prefer that their government does so.

fnid2 17y ago
That's my point: moral relativism. It's not our place to say how another country should be run by another people. It's arrogant and ignorant. Imagine Baidu censoring stuff in the U.S. We'd be just as angry as they are about google not censoring stuff. I will also argue that freedom is not what is valued in the united states. Freedom for the ruling class is valued, but it's not valued for native americans. It's not valued for Palestinians. It's not valued for people who smoke dope. The United States is not a "free" country. Its prisons are defined by wealth. Its freedoms are defined by political clout. Its laws are set by the rich, broken by the rich, and enforced on the lower class. Freedom of speech in this country is defined by what is acceptable to those in power. If the speech promotes what those in power want, it is distributed. The media controls speech in this country -- not the people. It doesn't really matter anyway. How many people speak out about the war? It still started because the liars were louder. So does it matter?
- henrikschroder 17y ago
  It's not our place to say how another country should be run by another people. There's a difference between dictating what others should do and leading by example. Google doesn't care what other search engines in China do, they're just saying that they do not wish to censor anything on their search engine. If this is unacceptable to the Chinese government, they should just kick Google out instead of whining about it. Of course multi-national companies are coloured by their original culture, this cannot be a surprise to anyone, yet that is exactly what the Chinese government is acting like.
  - fnid2 17y ago
    China is being really nice about it, IMO. If it was an ordinary citizen running a search engine, they'd be in jail -- or suicided.
    - secret 17y ago
      And that's a good thing?

dublinclontarf 17y ago

Worlds oldest civilisation? The CCP is not another dynasty and is only 60 at best. What the CCP has been doing is keeping itself in power and keeping the gravy-train rolling. Life in the U.S is far better for most than in China. And the last time the CCP tried to run the country up to 80Million died, now they let most things run themselves and just collect the protection money. You sound like one of the 50cent gang, how much did the CCP pay you for this post, and do you get more for it being in English?

fnid2 17y ago
It's far better for Americans, but it's far worse for countless individuals around the world. Look, my life is not better because thousands of innocent people are dying in Iraq. I suffer. My mind is full of regret that my life is what it is due to torture, murder, and the theft and destruction of other people's property. It's wrong and our society should hold our collective heads in shame. I am not saying what china is doing is right. I am saying it is wrong for us to go into their country, profit off of their citizens and break their laws. If you want to take their money, obey the law. This is why I am anti-google. They are the example that proves we are a lawless nation. Google has been allowed to break the law repeatedly and continue to profit. If any individual around here broke the laws that google breaks every day -- making millions of dollars for doing it -- we'd be fined or in prison.
- dublinclontarf 17y ago
  Pfffsssht. you sound like China isn't full of arbitrary laws that make it impossible to be "legal". You also sound like the people living there are represented by their government, as opposed to being ruled by it. Note, it's the "laws" of the CCP's dictatorship, not the citizens. And all Google is doing is attempting to operate without complete political censorship, of things that embarrass the CCP. Your a shill, probably a poorly paid one.
  - fnid2 17y ago
    I was working for the 888 karma points. Please neg me so I can be more lucky.