5 ms·

I am waiting on the hammer to fall on 401k. Here is the current situation. 401k is a horrible idea, and its a good way to funnel money from savers. After 2

by JediPig 10y ago

I am waiting on the hammer to fall on 401k. Here is the current situation. 401k is a horrible idea, and its a good way to funnel money from savers. After 2000 & 2008, do you really want to trust the same people who needed bailed out? Yet, 401k is using those institutions to do business with. 401k is a wolf in sheeps clothing. The next down turn, who knows, governments have been known to seize retirement funds. What happens if US Congress decides to do that to save the nation? Look whats happening in the world, it has already happened in the last year in other nations. My advice, stay out of 401k, put your money where it has intrinsic value, and not a number on a computer screen.

toomuchtodo 10y ago
There is no place that'll provide the returns the equities market does, except perhaps a heavily managed rental property.
- JediPig 10y ago
  I strongly disagree. YTD http://www.barchart.com/commodityfutures/leaders?type=pl&cat=ytd&view=chart http://www.barchart.com/commodityfutures/leaders?type=pl&cat... 12 Month looks similar. Silver, Soybean, Sugar, Gold are up significantly.
  - tvanantwerp 10y ago
    Selecting a short time scale is not representative of anything. 401(k)s are meant to be long-term investment vehicles for retirement. Let's say I've nearly worked 30 years and I'm hoping to retire soon. Had I put my money all in silver, the top performer in your YTD chart, I would have over tripled my initial investment. However, putting my money in the S&P500 would've given me a 10x return over the same period. When it comes to buying equities or commodities, I typically prefer equities. Companies can innovate and grow and create new value that didn't exist. But a pile of precious metal today is the same pile of metal tomorrow.
harryh 10y ago
Essentially all assets, except perhaps gold^H^H^H^H commodities in your physical posession, are numbers on a computer screen. Even land ownership is controlled by records kept by local governments.
- blacksmith_tb 10y ago
  This is clearly true, but the scenarios in which it becomes a problem vary. In an isolated case of data loss/corruption that leaves the title to your home up in the air, there would be other sources of data to appeal to (records at lenders who had paper on the property, etc.) In more apocalyptic scenarios, even your on-hand physical assets won't be good for much (you can't eat gold).
  - harryh 10y ago
    Sure, but the person I was talking to wasn't talking about data loss. He was talking about asset seizure by the state. If they're going to seize my 401k they're just as likely to size my rental property. And ya, in apocalyptic scenarios the value of assets could swing wildly. I've seen Mad Max though. I'm not buying gold, I'm stockpiling guzzoline.
tvanantwerp 10y ago
Intrinsic value is not a thing. Stuff only has value if others are willing to buy it. What others want, and what prices they are willing to pay, change all the time with market conditions and consumer tastes.
schrodinger 10y ago
Here's an interesting hypothetical of someone who always invests over their life st the worst possible time (right before crashes). He still comes out pretty well http://awealthofcommonsense.com/2014/02/worlds-worst-market-timer/ http://awealthofcommonsense.com/2014/02/worlds-worst-market-...
justinlardinois 10y ago
What's the alternative? You can contribute to an IRA instead, but the limits are much lower. Any other investment products on the market will not be tax-advantaged. The 401(k) was created by Congress (it's even named after the section on the Internal Revenue Code that created it) and that's where its benefits come from. The only way a similar plan would ever emerge is if Congress decides to create that too. > The next down turn, who knows, governments have been known to seize retirement funds. What happens if US Congress decides to do that to save the nation? How would the US government do that? Your 401(k) money is held by a private bank; the government would literally have to seize private property, which on this scale and circumstances is completely unprecedented in US history.

by JediPig 10y ago

toomuchtodo 10y ago

There is no place that'll provide the returns the equities market does, except perhaps a heavily managed rental property.

JediPig 10y ago
I strongly disagree. YTD http://www.barchart.com/commodityfutures/leaders?type=pl&cat=ytd&view=chart http://www.barchart.com/commodityfutures/leaders?type=pl&cat... 12 Month looks similar. Silver, Soybean, Sugar, Gold are up significantly.
- tvanantwerp 10y ago
  Selecting a short time scale is not representative of anything. 401(k)s are meant to be long-term investment vehicles for retirement. Let's say I've nearly worked 30 years and I'm hoping to retire soon. Had I put my money all in silver, the top performer in your YTD chart, I would have over tripled my initial investment. However, putting my money in the S&P500 would've given me a 10x return over the same period. When it comes to buying equities or commodities, I typically prefer equities. Companies can innovate and grow and create new value that didn't exist. But a pile of precious metal today is the same pile of metal tomorrow.

harryh 10y ago

Essentially all assets, except perhaps gold^H^H^H^H commodities in your physical posession, are numbers on a computer screen. Even land ownership is controlled by records kept by local governments.

blacksmith_tb 10y ago
This is clearly true, but the scenarios in which it becomes a problem vary. In an isolated case of data loss/corruption that leaves the title to your home up in the air, there would be other sources of data to appeal to (records at lenders who had paper on the property, etc.) In more apocalyptic scenarios, even your on-hand physical assets won't be good for much (you can't eat gold).
- harryh 10y ago
  Sure, but the person I was talking to wasn't talking about data loss. He was talking about asset seizure by the state. If they're going to seize my 401k they're just as likely to size my rental property. And ya, in apocalyptic scenarios the value of assets could swing wildly. I've seen Mad Max though. I'm not buying gold, I'm stockpiling guzzoline.

tvanantwerp 10y ago

Intrinsic value is not a thing. Stuff only has value if others are willing to buy it. What others want, and what prices they are willing to pay, change all the time with market conditions and consumer tastes.

schrodinger 10y ago

Here's an interesting hypothetical of someone who always invests over their life st the worst possible time (right before crashes). He still comes out pretty well http://awealthofcommonsense.com/2014/02/worlds-worst-market-timer/ http://awealthofcommonsense.com/2014/02/worlds-worst-market-...

justinlardinois 10y ago

What's the alternative? You can contribute to an IRA instead, but the limits are much lower. Any other investment products on the market will not be tax-advantaged. The 401(k) was created by Congress (it's even named after the section on the Internal Revenue Code that created it) and that's where its benefits come from. The only way a similar plan would ever emerge is if Congress decides to create that too. > The next down turn, who knows, governments have been known to seize retirement funds. What happens if US Congress decides to do that to save the nation? How would the US government do that? Your 401(k) money is held by a private bank; the government would literally have to seize private property, which on this scale and circumstances is completely unprecedented in US history.