5 ms·

Technically yes. But I imagine that if they did everyone would be incensed and vote leave - to send a message. Whoever was in power at the time would be hoisted

Technically yes. But I imagine that if they did everyone would be incensed and vote leave - to send a message. Whoever was in power at the time would be hoisted out in short order.

genericpseudo 10y ago
There isn't going to be a Britain to have that vote. Scotland is leaving and the Brexit vote has reraised the spectre of terrorism in Northern Ireland.
- monk_e_boy 10y ago
  Maybe it's for the best. Why not let Scotland leave and make their own choices?
  - sbmassey 10y ago
    Definitely - an independent Scotland can get the chip off its shoulder, dust off the statues of Adam Smith and become a decent nation again, EU or no.
dragonwriter 10y ago
> But I imagine that if they did everyone would be incensed and vote leave - to send a message. I suspect not; for one, I think many of the 4+ million who signed the petition for a new referendum would probably vote "Remain".
- monk_e_boy 10y ago
  How would you know if your vote would count for anything? If the people voted OUT and the government ignored it who's to say what other votes they will ignore. This has been debated to death, 99% of politicians agree that the vote is cast, let's move on.
  - vidarh 10y ago
    By this argument we'd only hold elections once, and move on. A central aspect of a democracy is that people are allowed to change their mind, and that people are allowed to continue to campaign for a decision to be overturned. So no, we won't move on. Even after a Brexit we won't move on - some of us will fight to rejoin, some of us will work for independence (for my part, I've offered to help one of the groups starting to work for independence for London). But this is not over, even it if takes breaking the UK apart to finish it.
vidarh 10y ago
What makes you think that? The vote was met with such shock that it has re-raised the prospect of Scottish independence, and caused calls for referendums on Ireland, and has triggered the start of a small movement for independence for London (yes, most of the people who signed the change.org petition probably did it as a joke/out of anger, but there are groups organising more serious endeavours), and the signals all over the place is drastic increased devolution for London to placate anger here. More than 4 million people signed a petition for a new referendum On top of that we now know that most of the promises from the leave camp were flat out lies, and they've basically been shown to not have the faintest idea what they want to achieve. I'm sure some would switch and vote leave out of spite, but frankly I don't think the vote was fair or democratic to begin with - it presented a false choice, in that "leave" could campaign on anything under the sun, with contradicting ideas about what leaving actually meant, and we see now the problems that causes: Did the 52% want EEA membership? Did they want full on isolationism? Something in between? We don't know. And we don't know how the results would be if they had to pick a specific option, but it is highly unlikely that they'd be unchanged.
- monk_e_boy 10y ago
  It's sort of like D&D. Everyone in the country had rolled their character. Assume one roll of a D20. People who rolled 13+ were doing OK in life. 19s and 20s were rich. 1 to 12s are poor. Cameron (our DM) came along and gave us all a free re-roll. People with 10 or less voted yes. 11 - 15 were about 50/50 depending on risk aversion. 16 - 20 voted no. The numbers are almost always going to sway in favour of change, there are too many people down at the bottom. Sure, more options on how to leave would have been amazing, left-exit was interesting, green-exit was also interesting. Right-racist-exit was bonkers, but people liked it. But remember that remain-the-same and remain-and-re-negotiate had both been tried. And for millions and millions of people it was shit. Utter shit. Credit card chomping, crappy zero hour job, minimum wage, second hand clothes, crappy car, no life insurance, no pension, crap. Next time you're in an Oxfam shop look at us. Picking over dead man suits for our next job interview. The shame of it. Jobs gone. High streets gone. Only option is to move to London away from elderly parents, our kids, our friends.
  - 10y ago

Technically yes. But I imagine that if they did everyone would be incensed and vote leave - to send a message. Whoever was in power at the time would be hoisted out in short order.

genericpseudo 10y ago

There isn't going to be a Britain to have that vote. Scotland is leaving and the Brexit vote has reraised the spectre of terrorism in Northern Ireland.

monk_e_boy 10y ago
Maybe it's for the best. Why not let Scotland leave and make their own choices?
- sbmassey 10y ago
  Definitely - an independent Scotland can get the chip off its shoulder, dust off the statues of Adam Smith and become a decent nation again, EU or no.

dragonwriter 10y ago

> But I imagine that if they did everyone would be incensed and vote leave - to send a message. I suspect not; for one, I think many of the 4+ million who signed the petition for a new referendum would probably vote "Remain".

monk_e_boy 10y ago
How would you know if your vote would count for anything? If the people voted OUT and the government ignored it who's to say what other votes they will ignore. This has been debated to death, 99% of politicians agree that the vote is cast, let's move on.
- vidarh 10y ago
  By this argument we'd only hold elections once, and move on. A central aspect of a democracy is that people are allowed to change their mind, and that people are allowed to continue to campaign for a decision to be overturned. So no, we won't move on. Even after a Brexit we won't move on - some of us will fight to rejoin, some of us will work for independence (for my part, I've offered to help one of the groups starting to work for independence for London). But this is not over, even it if takes breaking the UK apart to finish it.

vidarh 10y ago

What makes you think that? The vote was met with such shock that it has re-raised the prospect of Scottish independence, and caused calls for referendums on Ireland, and has triggered the start of a small movement for independence for London (yes, most of the people who signed the change.org petition probably did it as a joke/out of anger, but there are groups organising more serious endeavours), and the signals all over the place is drastic increased devolution for London to placate anger here. More than 4 million people signed a petition for a new referendum On top of that we now know that most of the promises from the leave camp were flat out lies, and they've basically been shown to not have the faintest idea what they want to achieve. I'm sure some would switch and vote leave out of spite, but frankly I don't think the vote was fair or democratic to begin with - it presented a false choice, in that "leave" could campaign on anything under the sun, with contradicting ideas about what leaving actually meant, and we see now the problems that causes: Did the 52% want EEA membership? Did they want full on isolationism? Something in between? We don't know. And we don't know how the results would be if they had to pick a specific option, but it is highly unlikely that they'd be unchanged.

monk_e_boy 10y ago
It's sort of like D&D. Everyone in the country had rolled their character. Assume one roll of a D20. People who rolled 13+ were doing OK in life. 19s and 20s were rich. 1 to 12s are poor. Cameron (our DM) came along and gave us all a free re-roll. People with 10 or less voted yes. 11 - 15 were about 50/50 depending on risk aversion. 16 - 20 voted no. The numbers are almost always going to sway in favour of change, there are too many people down at the bottom. Sure, more options on how to leave would have been amazing, left-exit was interesting, green-exit was also interesting. Right-racist-exit was bonkers, but people liked it. But remember that remain-the-same and remain-and-re-negotiate had both been tried. And for millions and millions of people it was shit. Utter shit. Credit card chomping, crappy zero hour job, minimum wage, second hand clothes, crappy car, no life insurance, no pension, crap. Next time you're in an Oxfam shop look at us. Picking over dead man suits for our next job interview. The shame of it. Jobs gone. High streets gone. Only option is to move to London away from elderly parents, our kids, our friends.
- 10y ago