8 ms·

The article does a pretty good job of explaining how they reached that figure. Massive financial manoeuvres involved in aircraft leasing industry. On a global l

by s_dev 10y ago

The article does a pretty good job of explaining how they reached that figure. Massive financial manoeuvres involved in aircraft leasing industry. On a global level Ireland is the place for aircraft leasing. GDP and GNP are similar for most countries but Ireland is a small open and agile economy with a huge presence of foreign multinationals. Profits of these companies are often declared in Ireland but repatriated back to their host countries. Hence the disparity between the two figures. Ireland also entered a harsh recession from 2008 to 2014 so an element here is also simply making up for lost ground. This comes at a time when Ireland is bracing itself for Brexit. Ireland is massive trading partner of the UK. Ireland buys a similar amount from the UK as France for example. The strategy seems twofold - get the EU to empathise with Ireland so that the UK doesn't have to got though a hard exit and introduce a hard border. While also trying to rob all the companies looking to relocate to an EU location from London. For me whats interesting so much value being added to the Irish economy with relatively little actually coming from construction. Something Ireland was little too dependant on.

k-mcgrady 10y ago
>> "so that the UK doesn't have to got though a hard exit and introduce a hard border" I don't see anyway around the hard border. If border EU countries are required to protect their border as I've been lead to believe then Ireland now has to do that unless UK excepts freedom of movement.
- s_dev 10y ago
  Rumour has it the UK will likely go for EEA membership after invoking article 50. This isn't foregone conclusion but a possibility and some would say likely outcome. UK will have to accept EU migration and contribute to EU purse but doesn't have a seat at the table making the whole referendum a fruitless pursuit that cost the UK political clout. Conversely the Germans may see Brexit as a threat to the EU (particularly if the UK does well outside the EU) and may veto the UK joining the EEA. The UK performing poorly outside the EU would act as a disincentive to other members who may be weighing up leaving. Another alternative to the hard border between N.Ireland and Ireland is a hard border between N.Ireland and the rest of the UK. Though some saying having to use a passport to travel within your own country defeats the purpose of the country.
  - threeseed 10y ago
    I personally doubt that the UK will go for EEA membership. The Leave campaign made it crystal clear their rationale and the most notable were not allowing EU immigration and not giving money to the EU. For the Tory government to ignore the mandate would be politically catastrophic and would result in the same problems from the right e.g UKIP that caused this whole mess to begin with. It seems more likely that there will be a whole raft of specific agreements over the coming decades that will facilitate a more constructive EU-UK relationship.
    - sksksk 10y ago
      I could imagine a situation where we leave the EU and join the EEA on a "temporary" measure, giving us time to negotiate trade deals with other countries, and then when we're ready we will leave the EEA.
    - celticninja 10y ago
      The leave campaign made nothing clear and reneged immediately on the promises it had made. Half of them said we would remain in the single market and keep freedom of movement and others said we wouldn't have either. There were no consistent demands from leave. Even leave voters who were interviewed afterwards said they wanted to limit the movement of people from Syria and Afghanistan not the movement of people from Europe, showing not only did they not understand what they voted for their desired outcome was never possible anyway. None of the leave campaign are in a position of power so what they wanted, whatever it was, is not an issue.
  - deepnet 10y ago
    Veto is a very powerful instrument, only the initial members have it. The UK has a similar veto which gives it a powerful negotiating tool - a single member can prevent every decision by vetoing it. The Germans could veto but the UK can veto everything and delay leaving till it gets most of what it wants - effectively halting the EU. Any attempts to circumvent veto can be vetoed.
    - s_dev 10y ago
- rhaps0dy 10y ago
  > If border EU countries are required to protect their border as I've been lead to believe I think that's what parent means. That the EU not force Ireland to protect the border, that they make an exception with UK. >Ireland has to do that unless UK accepts freedom of movement No? Ireland can do whatever the EU wants, independently of whether UK accepts or does not accept freedom of movement.
- netsharc 10y ago
  Norway (not-EU) borders Sweden and Finland (EU) and have an open border agreement. But of course it also has freedom of movement for EUians. Northern Ireland should just pull out of the UK already and the whole island can return to being Ireland, and solve the problem with land borders.
  - barrkel 10y ago
    There isn't a majority in either Northern Ireland nor the Republic for that to happen. As an Irishman, I've always thought even of the nationalists up north as a different breed; their mentality is defined by what they're in opposition to. Toxic politics; everything is looking inward rather than forward.
    - tonyedgecombe 10y ago
      We've had quite a lot of that in the rest of the UK as well.
    - Chris2048 10y ago
      > their mentality is defined by what they're in opposition to A lot of the Irish define themselves, historically, in terms of opposition to the British.
      - barking 10y ago
        The irish are more secure in their identity than the welsh or scots in my experience
        Chris2048 10y ago
        That's a whole other kettle of fish :-D
        teh_klev 10y ago
        I'm quite secure in my identity as a Scot and secondarily as a European. But yes, there are an awful lot of "proud Scot, but..." types; an affectation also known as the "Scottish Cringe".
- Reason077 10y ago
  I don't see anyway around the hard border. If border EU countries are required to protect their border... Whatever happens with Brexit, it's very unlikely there'll be a "hard border" between the UK and ROI. The UK and ROI have a common travel area agreement that predates, and does not depend on, the EU. The ROI, like the UK, is not part of the Schengen agreement area and so is outside the "EU border" anyway. It's very difficult to imagine a scenario where Ireland would want to give up the CTA in favour of Schengen, even given the circumstances of Brexit. Even if the UK fails to negotiate full free market access or a free trade agreement with the EU, any restrictions would almost certainly relate to services, not the free movement of goods.
  - rmc 10y ago
    Would the UK want a hard border? Otherwise any EU citizen could travel to Ireland. Walk across the border, and hence enter UK without any checks. If you get deported from the UK, just walk back across the border. etc. Would the UK accept that?
    - barking 10y ago
      what would most likely happen is what happened during WW2 and that is border controls between NI and the UK mainland
      - talideon 10y ago
        The political fallout from that was manageable during WW2, but now, not so much. Unionists and Loyalists would have a fit at even the suggestion of border controls between NI and GB.
      - CalRobert 10y ago
        That would be even less popular than border controls between Alaska and/or Hawaii and the continental US.
    - patrickk 10y ago
      Additionally, the EU likely wouldn't want the UK to have no border with ROI. Otherwise you could simply fly from (say) Romania to Dublin, travel up to Belfast, and move freely within the UK from there. This would create further tensions between the UK and EU.
- rmc 10y ago
  One way is a united Ireland. Which is a whole other can of worms.
branchless 10y ago
Are they not just stealing from other taxpayers by being "small and nimble" in providing a tax arbitrage in a world where money flows unchecked?
- JBReefer 10y ago
  That's like saying I'm stealing your dating options by being better looking than you, or your medals by running faster.
  - branchless 10y ago
    No it's like saying I'm going to eat your food but it's ok because it's at my house even though I've just been round your house and taken it. Real work is done in one location using real infrastructure then real tax is avoided using tax loopholes and countries who want a higher standard of living than their value added labour allows.

by s_dev 10y ago

k-mcgrady 10y ago

>> "so that the UK doesn't have to got though a hard exit and introduce a hard border" I don't see anyway around the hard border. If border EU countries are required to protect their border as I've been lead to believe then Ireland now has to do that unless UK excepts freedom of movement.

s_dev 10y ago
Rumour has it the UK will likely go for EEA membership after invoking article 50. This isn't foregone conclusion but a possibility and some would say likely outcome. UK will have to accept EU migration and contribute to EU purse but doesn't have a seat at the table making the whole referendum a fruitless pursuit that cost the UK political clout. Conversely the Germans may see Brexit as a threat to the EU (particularly if the UK does well outside the EU) and may veto the UK joining the EEA. The UK performing poorly outside the EU would act as a disincentive to other members who may be weighing up leaving. Another alternative to the hard border between N.Ireland and Ireland is a hard border between N.Ireland and the rest of the UK. Though some saying having to use a passport to travel within your own country defeats the purpose of the country.
- threeseed 10y ago
  I personally doubt that the UK will go for EEA membership. The Leave campaign made it crystal clear their rationale and the most notable were not allowing EU immigration and not giving money to the EU. For the Tory government to ignore the mandate would be politically catastrophic and would result in the same problems from the right e.g UKIP that caused this whole mess to begin with. It seems more likely that there will be a whole raft of specific agreements over the coming decades that will facilitate a more constructive EU-UK relationship.
  - sksksk 10y ago
    I could imagine a situation where we leave the EU and join the EEA on a "temporary" measure, giving us time to negotiate trade deals with other countries, and then when we're ready we will leave the EEA.
  - celticninja 10y ago
    The leave campaign made nothing clear and reneged immediately on the promises it had made. Half of them said we would remain in the single market and keep freedom of movement and others said we wouldn't have either. There were no consistent demands from leave. Even leave voters who were interviewed afterwards said they wanted to limit the movement of people from Syria and Afghanistan not the movement of people from Europe, showing not only did they not understand what they voted for their desired outcome was never possible anyway. None of the leave campaign are in a position of power so what they wanted, whatever it was, is not an issue.
- deepnet 10y ago
  Veto is a very powerful instrument, only the initial members have it. The UK has a similar veto which gives it a powerful negotiating tool - a single member can prevent every decision by vetoing it. The Germans could veto but the UK can veto everything and delay leaving till it gets most of what it wants - effectively halting the EU. Any attempts to circumvent veto can be vetoed.
  - s_dev 10y ago
rhaps0dy 10y ago
> If border EU countries are required to protect their border as I've been lead to believe I think that's what parent means. That the EU not force Ireland to protect the border, that they make an exception with UK. >Ireland has to do that unless UK accepts freedom of movement No? Ireland can do whatever the EU wants, independently of whether UK accepts or does not accept freedom of movement.
netsharc 10y ago
Norway (not-EU) borders Sweden and Finland (EU) and have an open border agreement. But of course it also has freedom of movement for EUians. Northern Ireland should just pull out of the UK already and the whole island can return to being Ireland, and solve the problem with land borders.
- barrkel 10y ago
  There isn't a majority in either Northern Ireland nor the Republic for that to happen. As an Irishman, I've always thought even of the nationalists up north as a different breed; their mentality is defined by what they're in opposition to. Toxic politics; everything is looking inward rather than forward.
  - tonyedgecombe 10y ago
    We've had quite a lot of that in the rest of the UK as well.
  - Chris2048 10y ago
    > their mentality is defined by what they're in opposition to A lot of the Irish define themselves, historically, in terms of opposition to the British.
    - barking 10y ago
      The irish are more secure in their identity than the welsh or scots in my experience
      - Chris2048 10y ago
        That's a whole other kettle of fish :-D
      - teh_klev 10y ago
        I'm quite secure in my identity as a Scot and secondarily as a European. But yes, there are an awful lot of "proud Scot, but..." types; an affectation also known as the "Scottish Cringe".
Reason077 10y ago
I don't see anyway around the hard border. If border EU countries are required to protect their border... Whatever happens with Brexit, it's very unlikely there'll be a "hard border" between the UK and ROI. The UK and ROI have a common travel area agreement that predates, and does not depend on, the EU. The ROI, like the UK, is not part of the Schengen agreement area and so is outside the "EU border" anyway. It's very difficult to imagine a scenario where Ireland would want to give up the CTA in favour of Schengen, even given the circumstances of Brexit. Even if the UK fails to negotiate full free market access or a free trade agreement with the EU, any restrictions would almost certainly relate to services, not the free movement of goods.
- rmc 10y ago
  Would the UK want a hard border? Otherwise any EU citizen could travel to Ireland. Walk across the border, and hence enter UK without any checks. If you get deported from the UK, just walk back across the border. etc. Would the UK accept that?
  - barking 10y ago
    what would most likely happen is what happened during WW2 and that is border controls between NI and the UK mainland
    - talideon 10y ago
      The political fallout from that was manageable during WW2, but now, not so much. Unionists and Loyalists would have a fit at even the suggestion of border controls between NI and GB.
    - CalRobert 10y ago
      That would be even less popular than border controls between Alaska and/or Hawaii and the continental US.
  - patrickk 10y ago
    Additionally, the EU likely wouldn't want the UK to have no border with ROI. Otherwise you could simply fly from (say) Romania to Dublin, travel up to Belfast, and move freely within the UK from there. This would create further tensions between the UK and EU.
rmc 10y ago
One way is a united Ireland. Which is a whole other can of worms.

branchless 10y ago

Are they not just stealing from other taxpayers by being "small and nimble" in providing a tax arbitrage in a world where money flows unchecked?

JBReefer 10y ago
That's like saying I'm stealing your dating options by being better looking than you, or your medals by running faster.
- branchless 10y ago
  No it's like saying I'm going to eat your food but it's ok because it's at my house even though I've just been round your house and taken it. Real work is done in one location using real infrastructure then real tax is avoided using tax loopholes and countries who want a higher standard of living than their value added labour allows.