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interesting. i realise that there must be much more evidence and study than is contained in that article, but it struck me that for the particular experiment t

interesting. i realise that there must be much more evidence and study than is contained in that article, but it struck me that for the particular experiment they gave the people with the harder task may have a stronger sense of being "owed" something, since they made more effort, and that maybe this stronger sense of entitlement leads them to take more rewards...?

switch 17y ago
a very good point. don't really get this study and line of thinking. Are they saying there's an optimum sweet spot because if you don't exercise self control at all then it's hard to have a decent amount of it.
cmdctl 17y ago
I agree, there must be more. It occurs to me that one might simply have a greater incentive to cheat on the second test as it involves money.
- btilly 17y ago
  The incentive to cheat on the second test is the same no matter how hard the first task was.
araneae 17y ago
I had the same thought. Back when I was in school, I would often eat a lot of junk food after studying. It wasn't that I was tired from exerting self-control, but rather that I thought I deserved it. Many other studies about morality have shown a similar effect; people who do something "good" early on are less likely to later on because they feel they've reached their internal "doing good stuff" quota. For instance, people who do programs like Teach for America have much lower rates of volunteerism afterwards than others.
Confusion 17y ago
If you take for granted that executing a 'hard' task (why do we deem it 'hard'?) gives you a stronger sense of entitlement, then you can explain the result away. The question you are thn overlooking is: why do they feel a stronger sense of entitlement? If that is because our capacity for self-control is exhausted, then the explanation in the article holds, only the consequence of the exhausted self-control has shifted one step up in the chain of cause and effect. The fact that you imagine this task being 'hard' indicates that you are aware of the mental exhaustion the task will cause. It's actually the exact same explanation given in the article, only you overlook it, because the 'hardness' of the task seems so obvious that you forget to ask why it is 'hard'. From a classic play by Moliere: Why do sleeping pills make you sleepy? Because they have sleep-inducing qualities!
- andrewcooke 17y ago
  i see your point, but it doesn't mean that they are identical. you would need to do another test - one that compared people who were tired through some task that was not considered "hard", and those that are tired through something that is considered "hard". if the two groups behaved identically, then you would be right. but you are assuming that result in what you write. alternatively, it might even be the same task, but two groups that have a different attitude to it (some might consider it play, others work). (i suspect you can also continue down your route, re-labelling things; for example, you might say that people only calls things "work" if, for that individual, they are "theft-inducing". at that point i am not sure if we simply agree to disagree, or if the argument becomes whether you are still learning something new over the original experiment)
Mz 17y ago
I was going to make much the same point (before skimming the responses to see if it would be a duplicate). I will add that maybe some people felt not only 'owed' something but an urge for vengeance. The stricter test condition is not merely one requiring 'self control' but is rather draconian in the degree to which it requires self-control. There is a difference between expecting self-restraint and imposing hardship on people. "What goes around comes around". When you crap on people for purposes of your so-called experiments, don't be all shocked when they crap on you if given the opportunity.

switch 17y ago

a very good point. don't really get this study and line of thinking. Are they saying there's an optimum sweet spot because if you don't exercise self control at all then it's hard to have a decent amount of it.

cmdctl 17y ago

I agree, there must be more. It occurs to me that one might simply have a greater incentive to cheat on the second test as it involves money.

btilly 17y ago
The incentive to cheat on the second test is the same no matter how hard the first task was.

araneae 17y ago

I had the same thought. Back when I was in school, I would often eat a lot of junk food after studying. It wasn't that I was tired from exerting self-control, but rather that I thought I deserved it. Many other studies about morality have shown a similar effect; people who do something "good" early on are less likely to later on because they feel they've reached their internal "doing good stuff" quota. For instance, people who do programs like Teach for America have much lower rates of volunteerism afterwards than others.

Confusion 17y ago

If you take for granted that executing a 'hard' task (why do we deem it 'hard'?) gives you a stronger sense of entitlement, then you can explain the result away. The question you are thn overlooking is: why do they feel a stronger sense of entitlement? If that is because our capacity for self-control is exhausted, then the explanation in the article holds, only the consequence of the exhausted self-control has shifted one step up in the chain of cause and effect. The fact that you imagine this task being 'hard' indicates that you are aware of the mental exhaustion the task will cause. It's actually the exact same explanation given in the article, only you overlook it, because the 'hardness' of the task seems so obvious that you forget to ask why it is 'hard'. From a classic play by Moliere: Why do sleeping pills make you sleepy? Because they have sleep-inducing qualities!

andrewcooke 17y ago
i see your point, but it doesn't mean that they are identical. you would need to do another test - one that compared people who were tired through some task that was not considered "hard", and those that are tired through something that is considered "hard". if the two groups behaved identically, then you would be right. but you are assuming that result in what you write. alternatively, it might even be the same task, but two groups that have a different attitude to it (some might consider it play, others work). (i suspect you can also continue down your route, re-labelling things; for example, you might say that people only calls things "work" if, for that individual, they are "theft-inducing". at that point i am not sure if we simply agree to disagree, or if the argument becomes whether you are still learning something new over the original experiment)

Mz 17y ago

I was going to make much the same point (before skimming the responses to see if it would be a duplicate). I will add that maybe some people felt not only 'owed' something but an urge for vengeance. The stricter test condition is not merely one requiring 'self control' but is rather draconian in the degree to which it requires self-control. There is a difference between expecting self-restraint and imposing hardship on people. "What goes around comes around". When you crap on people for purposes of your so-called experiments, don't be all shocked when they crap on you if given the opportunity.