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> Just like that the symptoms supposedly caused by the "Zika virus" is more likely to be a result from food by contaminated by pesticides/herbicides. You're ma

by jnbiche 10y ago

> Just like that the symptoms supposedly caused by the "Zika virus" is more likely to be a result from food by contaminated by pesticides/herbicides. You're making a claim here that pretty radically departs from scientific consensus. Do you have any background information on where you read this/how you determined this?

cies 10y ago
Sure (sorry for not backing it up in the first place): http://thefreethoughtproject.com/doctors-groups-deny-microcephaly-zika-connection-blame-monsanto-linked-pesticide-birth-defects/ http://thefreethoughtproject.com/doctors-groups-deny-microce... Only days after a list of articles claiming no link with pesticides were published, here a link to one of them: http://www.sciencealert.com/argentinian-report-says-monsanto-linked-pesticide-is-to-blame-for-microcephaly-outbreak-not-zika http://www.sciencealert.com/argentinian-report-says-monsanto... I'm quite close to some people in academic virology and they also were not to keen on calling for a Zika outbreak.
- steve19 10y ago
  A study published in The Lancet found a strong connection between Zika and microcephaly in fetuses in French Polynesia http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(16)00651-6/abstract http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-67...
  - divbyzer0 10y ago
    The main point of the article is that scientific & regulatory community was led by profit and not in the "spirit of disinterested inquiry". From the article: The original study on which the oil theory is founded, by Dr Juan Tabuenca Oliver, was published in the Lancet Also from the article: they concluded that, without any doubt, the contaminated foodstuff was tomatoes, and it was the pesticides on them that were responsible for the epidemic. The organo-phosphorous chemicals would indeed cause the range of symptoms observed by clinicians. Getting published in The Lancet does not prove anything. eg MMR vacine\autism. The article is well worth a read.
    - heliumcraft 10y ago
      That may be so, but I'll take The Lancet over thefreethoughtproject.com, natural news and random conspiracy internet websites any day.
- jnbiche 10y ago
  OK, you've implied or linked to some significantly different claims here: 1. That there is no Zika outbreak / outbreak of Zika-like symptoms (this seems irrefutably wrong and as far as I know even the typical conspiracy theorist sites aren't claiming this much). 2. That the symptoms of Zika are in fact caused by the organo-phosphate pesticide Pyriproxyfen (Zika has been a recognized viral illness just like others e.g. Dengue for at least 50 years, predating the widepread use of organo-phosphates in Brazil, so this also is very, very unlikely). 3. That the microencephaly in babies borne to mothers with Zika, that is being attributed to the Zika virus, is in fact caused by Pyriproxyfen (for epidemiological reasons [1], this seems very unlikely but it cannot be ruled out at this point). By the way, your second source didn't seem terribly bad, and assumed an appropriate amount of skepticism toward the claims in question. Your first source, written by an "political analyst" currently pursuing a global affairs degree, and with no apparent scientific credentials, wasn't as convincing. Are any of the academic virologists you're referring to on public record with their skepticism about the Zika outbreak? 1. In the three cities reporting the most cases — Recife, Jaboatao and Paulista — pyriproxyfen is not in use, according to: http://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2016/02/18/467138913/did-a-pesticide-cause-microcephaly-in-brazil-unlikely-say-experts http://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2016/02/18/46713891....
  - cies 10y ago
    > outbreak of Zika-like symptoms The symptoms are witnessed, sure. But are they caused by Zika; I think not. Zika is around for a long time, and seems to be relatively harmless (as in: no obvious symptoms). Therefor I do not speak of Zika-symptoms. The sources are merely by Google'ing, I did not do proper background checks. I did my own research on this some time ago and talked it though with a virologist I know; she was surprised that I knew about the absense of link and that they are also coming to that conclusion (though I do not know if her department made an official statement on that).
    - summarite 10y ago
      Look, you're making utterly unsubstantiated claims based on your own conjecture and some supposed virologist friend. No matter how smart and educated you might believe yourself to be, you are just as ridiculously making stuff up as eg climate deniers.
- mikeash 10y ago
  The top story of The Free Thought Project's Environmental News section is about chemtrails. The front page of ScienceAlert currently has a story about morse code being discovered on Martian dunes. Do you have any sources that aren't obvious crackpots?

by jnbiche 10y ago

cies 10y ago

Sure (sorry for not backing it up in the first place): http://thefreethoughtproject.com/doctors-groups-deny-microcephaly-zika-connection-blame-monsanto-linked-pesticide-birth-defects/ http://thefreethoughtproject.com/doctors-groups-deny-microce... Only days after a list of articles claiming no link with pesticides were published, here a link to one of them: http://www.sciencealert.com/argentinian-report-says-monsanto-linked-pesticide-is-to-blame-for-microcephaly-outbreak-not-zika http://www.sciencealert.com/argentinian-report-says-monsanto... I'm quite close to some people in academic virology and they also were not to keen on calling for a Zika outbreak.

steve19 10y ago
A study published in The Lancet found a strong connection between Zika and microcephaly in fetuses in French Polynesia http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(16)00651-6/abstract http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-67...
- divbyzer0 10y ago
  The main point of the article is that scientific & regulatory community was led by profit and not in the "spirit of disinterested inquiry". From the article: The original study on which the oil theory is founded, by Dr Juan Tabuenca Oliver, was published in the Lancet Also from the article: they concluded that, without any doubt, the contaminated foodstuff was tomatoes, and it was the pesticides on them that were responsible for the epidemic. The organo-phosphorous chemicals would indeed cause the range of symptoms observed by clinicians. Getting published in The Lancet does not prove anything. eg MMR vacine\autism. The article is well worth a read.
  - heliumcraft 10y ago
    That may be so, but I'll take The Lancet over thefreethoughtproject.com, natural news and random conspiracy internet websites any day.
jnbiche 10y ago
OK, you've implied or linked to some significantly different claims here: 1. That there is no Zika outbreak / outbreak of Zika-like symptoms (this seems irrefutably wrong and as far as I know even the typical conspiracy theorist sites aren't claiming this much). 2. That the symptoms of Zika are in fact caused by the organo-phosphate pesticide Pyriproxyfen (Zika has been a recognized viral illness just like others e.g. Dengue for at least 50 years, predating the widepread use of organo-phosphates in Brazil, so this also is very, very unlikely). 3. That the microencephaly in babies borne to mothers with Zika, that is being attributed to the Zika virus, is in fact caused by Pyriproxyfen (for epidemiological reasons [1], this seems very unlikely but it cannot be ruled out at this point). By the way, your second source didn't seem terribly bad, and assumed an appropriate amount of skepticism toward the claims in question. Your first source, written by an "political analyst" currently pursuing a global affairs degree, and with no apparent scientific credentials, wasn't as convincing. Are any of the academic virologists you're referring to on public record with their skepticism about the Zika outbreak? 1. In the three cities reporting the most cases — Recife, Jaboatao and Paulista — pyriproxyfen is not in use, according to: http://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2016/02/18/467138913/did-a-pesticide-cause-microcephaly-in-brazil-unlikely-say-experts http://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2016/02/18/46713891....
- cies 10y ago
  > outbreak of Zika-like symptoms The symptoms are witnessed, sure. But are they caused by Zika; I think not. Zika is around for a long time, and seems to be relatively harmless (as in: no obvious symptoms). Therefor I do not speak of Zika-symptoms. The sources are merely by Google'ing, I did not do proper background checks. I did my own research on this some time ago and talked it though with a virologist I know; she was surprised that I knew about the absense of link and that they are also coming to that conclusion (though I do not know if her department made an official statement on that).
  - summarite 10y ago
    Look, you're making utterly unsubstantiated claims based on your own conjecture and some supposed virologist friend. No matter how smart and educated you might believe yourself to be, you are just as ridiculously making stuff up as eg climate deniers.
mikeash 10y ago
The top story of The Free Thought Project's Environmental News section is about chemtrails. The front page of ScienceAlert currently has a story about morse code being discovered on Martian dunes. Do you have any sources that aren't obvious crackpots?