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By that logic no law can ever be imposed, because you're free to try and secede. The EU makes it as difficult as possible to 'secede' as evidenced by their act

By that logic no law can ever be imposed, because you're free to try and secede. The EU makes it as difficult as possible to 'secede' as evidenced by their actions post-Brexit. Their minds are 100% focused on how to make it as painful as possible to reduce the chances of anyone else leaving. This is the mentality of a law enforcer, not a peer.

vidarh 10y ago
No, the difference is whether or not a member remains sovereign. While the EU may make it difficult to withdraw, e.g. under UK law the UK Parliament is sovereign. Laws can't be imposed on any UK Parliament. Likewise, any UK Parliament can revoke any law, including the European Communities Act, if Parliament wishes. In which case from a UK legal standpoint, the UK would cease to be a member of the EU regardless of what the EU might think. From a UK point of view, invoking Article 50 is the polite thing, not a legal requirement.
- sievebrain 10y ago
  Again, your entire argument is pointless lawyering. The European Communities Act 1972 specifically says that UK domestic law has effect "subject to" EU law, and that's been interpreted by the courts to mean EU law has primacy over domestic law: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Communities_Act_1972_(UK) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Communities_Act_1972_... British Ministers have spoken repeatedly about their frustration at finding out they cannot implement law changes wanted by their constituents because they conflict with EU law. Yes, the European Communities Act can be repealed at any point as part of the process of exiting the EU. But until that happens, EU law has primacy over Parliament's own laws both by widely held legal understanding and social convention. To reinforce it one more time: by your logic everyone is sovereign and can simply choose to ignore the state at any point. It's an intellectually useless argument because it ignores the behaviour of the courts, the existence of laws stating the opposite and the ability of the state to force you to comply (which may in fact be via fines rather than jail sentences).
dragonwriter 10y ago
> The EU makes it as difficult as possible to 'secede' What? Its simple to secede from the EU. You just declare that you are doing it, and two years later you are out. In those two years, you may or may not be able to negotiate terms with the EU to provide for other-than-default relations after you leave, but its not at all difficult to leave, except insofar as by leaving you risk losing all the benefits you gained from being in the EU (but if you thought that you were getting a net benefit from being in the EU, presumably you wouldn't be electing to leave in the first place.)

vidarh 10y ago

No, the difference is whether or not a member remains sovereign. While the EU may make it difficult to withdraw, e.g. under UK law the UK Parliament is sovereign. Laws can't be imposed on any UK Parliament. Likewise, any UK Parliament can revoke any law, including the European Communities Act, if Parliament wishes. In which case from a UK legal standpoint, the UK would cease to be a member of the EU regardless of what the EU might think. From a UK point of view, invoking Article 50 is the polite thing, not a legal requirement.

sievebrain 10y ago
Again, your entire argument is pointless lawyering. The European Communities Act 1972 specifically says that UK domestic law has effect "subject to" EU law, and that's been interpreted by the courts to mean EU law has primacy over domestic law: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Communities_Act_1972_(UK) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Communities_Act_1972_... British Ministers have spoken repeatedly about their frustration at finding out they cannot implement law changes wanted by their constituents because they conflict with EU law. Yes, the European Communities Act can be repealed at any point as part of the process of exiting the EU. But until that happens, EU law has primacy over Parliament's own laws both by widely held legal understanding and social convention. To reinforce it one more time: by your logic everyone is sovereign and can simply choose to ignore the state at any point. It's an intellectually useless argument because it ignores the behaviour of the courts, the existence of laws stating the opposite and the ability of the state to force you to comply (which may in fact be via fines rather than jail sentences).

dragonwriter 10y ago

> The EU makes it as difficult as possible to 'secede' What? Its simple to secede from the EU. You just declare that you are doing it, and two years later you are out. In those two years, you may or may not be able to negotiate terms with the EU to provide for other-than-default relations after you leave, but its not at all difficult to leave, except insofar as by leaving you risk losing all the benefits you gained from being in the EU (but if you thought that you were getting a net benefit from being in the EU, presumably you wouldn't be electing to leave in the first place.)