6 ms·

From a white, middle class background. I am one of six children, and while my parents made a decent living, six children meant that money was always tight. Stil

From a white, middle class background. I am one of six children, and while my parents made a decent living, six children meant that money was always tight. Still, my Mom taught us the importance of good manners and being able to speak properly. She did this because she thought it was the right thing to do, and because she knew we didn't have the same financial advantages as other people. I learned an important lesson about this in my very early twenties when I applied for a summer internship at a local firm. There were only two interviews: one with engineering and one with the owner. The owner gave me the internship on the spot not because of my qualifications, but because he liked the way I dressed and spoke. His words to me were something along the lines of "I feel comfortable putting you in front of our clients." One of the reasons poverty is so disabling is because it changes the way a lot of people ( but not all people ) carry themselves. People from wealthier backgrounds often present better and get first crack at opportunities as a result. Note that when I say "present", I am talking about mostly superficial qualities, not level of education, skill, or other deeper qualities. Anyone can learn to present themselves the right way, with respect to speaking, dressing, and credentials - although it's extra work and extra cost for those who have already fought very hard for their chance to climb the ladder.

EliRivers 10y ago
For better or for worse, you're so right. Shift-work during university. Hiring was a cattle call; just a long line of people my age. Sat down. Interviewer told me I was hired because I was the only person wearing a tie. Wrote down first shift, stood up, left. Sixty seconds.
- dsfyu404ed 10y ago
  In dining services we'd half jokingly use phrases like "throwing bodies at the problem" because a pulse was our primary qualification for employment. It's mind boggling that they didn't make money hand over fist when ~50% of their employee costs were returned via work-study reimbursement from Uncle Sam.
- biocomputation 10y ago
  Yup. That sounds about right. It means that even knowing how to iron a shirt and pants ( so they look good with a tie ) can be an important distinction in terms of accessing opportunity. Sad but true!
junipergreen 10y ago
"And they may face discrimination based on race, class or other factors." In urban areas, where access to transportation and availability of jobs is better, this is really the crux of the issue. Employers (often unfairly) view middle class kids as more reliable. So even if they think working class kids will work harder (another common view in my experience), they see the middle class teenagers as less of a risk.
- dogma1138 10y ago
  Isn't middle class also a working class? I was brought up as middle class, not especially wealthy would even classify it towards the lower end, but highly educated as both parents were academics. I worked every summer since I was 13, and 16ish to 18 also during the school year now and then (17/18 was fairly lucky early it was really early 2000's and I mastered PHP rather well so made actually decent money building websites when web2.0, CMS and dynamic content were still meaningful buzzwords).
  - true_religion 10y ago
    Well no. The working class is the bottom end of the middle class (historically factory workers, currently teachers and clerking jobs). The upper end of the middle-class are people making 150k+ a year. The middle-end have jobs within the 80k to 100k range.
  - junipergreen 10y ago
    In the academic, Marxist sense, yes. But I was using the term "working class" rather as a synonym for minimum wage, blue collar workers, or in this case teenagers whose parents have those jobs. The point really is that middle class kids (like you were) can get jobs (like you did), whereas poor kids often can't.
- true_religion 10y ago
  Middle class kids are unreliable because they don't "need" the work. They want it to buy things for themselves or to feel a sense of independence, but anything 'more important' that comes up will cut infront of work. If they need to go to school, or camp, or have a family event...they'll do that instead of work because work isn't a necessity. The poor on the otherhand will go to work over all else, and they'll never have their parents give them a choice between going to work next month or going on vacation in Hawaii.

EliRivers 10y ago

For better or for worse, you're so right. Shift-work during university. Hiring was a cattle call; just a long line of people my age. Sat down. Interviewer told me I was hired because I was the only person wearing a tie. Wrote down first shift, stood up, left. Sixty seconds.

dsfyu404ed 10y ago
In dining services we'd half jokingly use phrases like "throwing bodies at the problem" because a pulse was our primary qualification for employment. It's mind boggling that they didn't make money hand over fist when ~50% of their employee costs were returned via work-study reimbursement from Uncle Sam.
biocomputation 10y ago
Yup. That sounds about right. It means that even knowing how to iron a shirt and pants ( so they look good with a tie ) can be an important distinction in terms of accessing opportunity. Sad but true!

junipergreen 10y ago

"And they may face discrimination based on race, class or other factors." In urban areas, where access to transportation and availability of jobs is better, this is really the crux of the issue. Employers (often unfairly) view middle class kids as more reliable. So even if they think working class kids will work harder (another common view in my experience), they see the middle class teenagers as less of a risk.

dogma1138 10y ago
Isn't middle class also a working class? I was brought up as middle class, not especially wealthy would even classify it towards the lower end, but highly educated as both parents were academics. I worked every summer since I was 13, and 16ish to 18 also during the school year now and then (17/18 was fairly lucky early it was really early 2000's and I mastered PHP rather well so made actually decent money building websites when web2.0, CMS and dynamic content were still meaningful buzzwords).
- true_religion 10y ago
  Well no. The working class is the bottom end of the middle class (historically factory workers, currently teachers and clerking jobs). The upper end of the middle-class are people making 150k+ a year. The middle-end have jobs within the 80k to 100k range.
- junipergreen 10y ago
  In the academic, Marxist sense, yes. But I was using the term "working class" rather as a synonym for minimum wage, blue collar workers, or in this case teenagers whose parents have those jobs. The point really is that middle class kids (like you were) can get jobs (like you did), whereas poor kids often can't.
true_religion 10y ago
Middle class kids are unreliable because they don't "need" the work. They want it to buy things for themselves or to feel a sense of independence, but anything 'more important' that comes up will cut infront of work. If they need to go to school, or camp, or have a family event...they'll do that instead of work because work isn't a necessity. The poor on the otherhand will go to work over all else, and they'll never have their parents give them a choice between going to work next month or going on vacation in Hawaii.