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>Encryption is the correct solution anyway. I wouldn't say solution. Realtime visibility of police activity is critical to understanding what's happening in a

>Encryption is the correct solution anyway. I wouldn't say solution. Realtime visibility of police activity is critical to understanding what's happening in a city and holding one of its most important institutions accountable. Police operating in secret is a deeply scary thing. Granted, there are other mechanisms, like daily activity logs that can be inspected at the police station. The difference between Soviet-style "disappearing" people and arresting them is putting the fact of their arrest in a place where a newspaper will find it. This stuff matters.

danso 10y ago
As the recent shootings in Dallas show, having police comm happen on public airspace is crucial in crisis situations. Even with traffic unencrypted there was huge confusion...imagine some "which fucking frequency are you using and why is Officer Smith not fucking using it?" mixed into the clusterfuck, exacerbated by encryption protocol differences between multiple agencies -- Dallas PD, DART, FBI, ATF, county sheriff, Texas highway patrol, college campus police, nevermind fire and ambulance.
- mindcrime 10y ago
  Having to deal with multiple frequencies and protocols is a fucking nightmare on an emergency scene. God forbid you have multiple agencies from various counties and states, plus something federal mixed in. It's really a bad experience and messages do get lost. Source: former firefighter and 911 dispatcher.
throwaway7767 10y ago
I'm sort of on the fence. Previously I would have completely agreed - police comms chatter should be public information. I live in a small country, and I set up a police scanner recently (a bit more effort than the US scanners, as we use TETRA digital radio, so there aren't many people listening). I had fun for a couple of nights listening to the stream. Then I realised that most police work is dealing with really sad human drama. Listening to that stuff is draining, and honestly a lot of it is none of my business. One of the early recordings I got was talking about an asylum seeker who was threatening to kill himself. The officer was clearly worried about him, and was talking to dispatch about how he'd previously talked to this guy when he doused himself in gasoline in the red cross office and tried to put himself on fire. The person was named and his social identity number was read out through the radio. I really felt bad after listening to that, like I was trying to get kicks from others misery. I don't listen to the recordings anymore. But I still record, in case something big and interesting comes up (think police shooting - having a record of police radio could potentially clear things up). Still, I think it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world if they paid for the TETRA encryption license.
- danso 10y ago
  OTOH, I think it's important for the public to have a low-friction channel to day-to-day police work, the kind of things that police do 99% of the time when they aren't in the news for something extraordinary (I use extraordinary in a neutral sense, for both heroic and scandalous incidents). Much of it is quite mundane and often depressing, but it's part of civil society, and it sheds light on why police work is sometimes the way it is. Of course, there's always the danger that some entrepreneur will try to monetize this public information by appealing to pruriency [0], but I think we should cross that bridge when we get there, rather than preemptively shutting down a valuable channel that has more benefits (for now) being open than closed. [0] http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/28/us/28mug.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/28/us/28mug.html?_r=0
  - superuser2 10y ago
    >Much of it is quite mundane and often depressing, but it's part of civil society Thanks, I think it's part of civil society nails what I was trying to say.

danso 10y ago

As the recent shootings in Dallas show, having police comm happen on public airspace is crucial in crisis situations. Even with traffic unencrypted there was huge confusion...imagine some "which fucking frequency are you using and why is Officer Smith not fucking using it?" mixed into the clusterfuck, exacerbated by encryption protocol differences between multiple agencies -- Dallas PD, DART, FBI, ATF, county sheriff, Texas highway patrol, college campus police, nevermind fire and ambulance.

mindcrime 10y ago
Having to deal with multiple frequencies and protocols is a fucking nightmare on an emergency scene. God forbid you have multiple agencies from various counties and states, plus something federal mixed in. It's really a bad experience and messages do get lost. Source: former firefighter and 911 dispatcher.

throwaway7767 10y ago

I'm sort of on the fence. Previously I would have completely agreed - police comms chatter should be public information. I live in a small country, and I set up a police scanner recently (a bit more effort than the US scanners, as we use TETRA digital radio, so there aren't many people listening). I had fun for a couple of nights listening to the stream. Then I realised that most police work is dealing with really sad human drama. Listening to that stuff is draining, and honestly a lot of it is none of my business. One of the early recordings I got was talking about an asylum seeker who was threatening to kill himself. The officer was clearly worried about him, and was talking to dispatch about how he'd previously talked to this guy when he doused himself in gasoline in the red cross office and tried to put himself on fire. The person was named and his social identity number was read out through the radio. I really felt bad after listening to that, like I was trying to get kicks from others misery. I don't listen to the recordings anymore. But I still record, in case something big and interesting comes up (think police shooting - having a record of police radio could potentially clear things up). Still, I think it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world if they paid for the TETRA encryption license.

danso 10y ago
OTOH, I think it's important for the public to have a low-friction channel to day-to-day police work, the kind of things that police do 99% of the time when they aren't in the news for something extraordinary (I use extraordinary in a neutral sense, for both heroic and scandalous incidents). Much of it is quite mundane and often depressing, but it's part of civil society, and it sheds light on why police work is sometimes the way it is. Of course, there's always the danger that some entrepreneur will try to monetize this public information by appealing to pruriency [0], but I think we should cross that bridge when we get there, rather than preemptively shutting down a valuable channel that has more benefits (for now) being open than closed. [0] http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/28/us/28mug.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/28/us/28mug.html?_r=0
- superuser2 10y ago
  >Much of it is quite mundane and often depressing, but it's part of civil society Thanks, I think it's part of civil society nails what I was trying to say.