4 ms·

TL;DR: Israel is apparently known by some as the "startup nation" and growth in the tech sector is growing slower than rest of economy, supposedly due to lack o

TL;DR: Israel is apparently known by some as the "startup nation" and growth in the tech sector is growing slower than rest of economy, supposedly due to lack of trained employees. There was another article recently saying the same thing about (I think) Spain.

wslh 10y ago
But you can't compare entrepreneur activity in Israel with Spain? Do you?
- amit_m 10y ago
  Israel is one of the largest startup hubs in the world, with the highest concentration of startups per capita. It is typically regarded as the largest startup hub outside the US. It also has R&D offices of all the major tech companies (typically following acquisitions): Google, Facebook, Microsoft, Apple, Amazon, IBM, HP, Oracle, ebay, Yahoo, AOL, etc. Let's take NASDAQ-listed companies for example. Israel (pop. 8 million) has 89 companies listed in the NASDAQ. Spain (pop. 48 million) has only 8. Yes, that's 66 times more per capita.
  - whamlastxmas 10y ago
    What's the source for that, and how do they define "startup"?
    - amit_m 10y ago
      "largest startup hub outside the US": http://www.businessinsider.com/the-20-hottest-startup-hubs-in-the-world-2015-7 http://www.businessinsider.com/the-20-hottest-startup-hubs-i... "highest concentration of startups per capita": http://www.forbes.com/sites/ilyapozin/2014/09/26/the-ten-startup-nation-movers-shakers-you-need-to-know/#5881b6f32ee3 http://www.forbes.com/sites/ilyapozin/2014/09/26/the-ten-sta... There are also more investment dollars per capita: http://www.geektime.com/2016/01/11/annual-report-2015-startups-and-venture-capital-in-israel/ http://www.geektime.com/2016/01/11/annual-report-2015-startu... For the number of NASDAQ-listed companies I queried the NASDAQ site: http://www.nasdaq.com/screening/companies-by-region.aspx?region=Middle+East&country=Israel http://www.nasdaq.com/screening/companies-by-region.aspx?reg... http://www.nasdaq.com/screening/companies-by-region.aspx?region=Europe&country=Spain http://www.nasdaq.com/screening/companies-by-region.aspx?reg...
      - whamlastxmas 10y ago
        The Forbes article says that, but provides no data or evidence. The actual source for the Business Insider link appears to be this: http://blog.compass.co/the-2015-global-startup-ecosystem-ranking-is-live/ http://blog.compass.co/the-2015-global-startup-ecosystem-ran... For the 2015 report, they completely removed the "startups per capita" variable because they decided after lots of discussion with investors/etc that it was a worthless figure. Because of that, it doesn't really seem to make sense for you to push it as evidence that Israel is a good place for startups. Additionally, they do not have data for China, Taiwan, Japan, and South Korea, of which they expected Beijing to probably surpass Israel in ranking. This would definitely be the case if combined with Shanghai. As the comments also point out, they are missing a lot of other cities. The data for this ranking seems to be done through surveys. They don't provide any information about this survey process, and because of that I have to think that it isn't providing very accurate results. There's also no definition of what a "startup" is. If I had to guess, it's any business using their tools. Because of this, it might make more sense to say "Israel has more users of Compass tools than any other country, per capita". This 2015 report also apparently ranks based on dating going back to 2011. If you look at 2015 data alone, Israel is definitely not the top outside the US. Berlin beats it in every category. Lastly, "It is typically regarded as the largest startup hub outside the US" is vague and doesn't really seem to be true. Largest by what standard? Because by any standard I can see, other than perhaps Compass users per capita, it is far from the largest. In regards to "There are also more investment dollars per capita" this data also appears to be questionable. The link describes "investment dollars" without any qualifier for Israel, but cites a number for the US ($60 billion) that is specifically only investment from venture capital. If you look at "investment dollars" in general for startups in the US, the number is over $100 billion. The source is also one that focuses specifically on Israel, so their data gathering is possibly much more deep than the reports coming out of the US. This is one of the cases again where "per capita" doesn't really seem to mean much.
        amit_m 10y ago
        Sorry, I am not trying to "push" any evidence nor am I an expert in startup ecosystem measurement. If you don't like the "Global Startup Ecosystem Ranking 2015" data set you can link to a different data set of your choosing. Where is the data supporting the statement "Berlin beats it in every category"? Obviously Beijing has huge market opportunities that companies in other countries can only dream on. They will probably get to #2 in the near future, but I doubt that they are there yet. Otherwise, I can't explain the (relatively) small number of internet companies making a global impact coming out of China, nor can I explain how someone like Lee Ka-Shing (Horizons Ventures), born in China and living in Hong-Kong would make 24 investments in Israeli startups and just 1 in a Chinese startup. [1] [1] http://horizonsventures.com/portfolio/ http://horizonsventures.com/portfolio/
- whamlastxmas 10y ago
  The labor markets are potentially comparable, though the reasons for the shortages are perhaps difference. I mostly just references Spain on the off chance that maybe the reasons are related.
  - wslh 10y ago
    Please let me know how they are comparable. The US labor market is also "potentially" comparable to both of them. In US you also have a shortage of engineers for startups and it is difficult to compete with top employers like Google, Facebook, Apple, or Microsoft.
Kinnard 10y ago
The moniker "Startup Nation" owe's a lot to the eponymous book: https://www.amazon.com/Start-up-Nation-Israels-Economic-Miracle/dp/0446541478/ https://www.amazon.com/Start-up-Nation-Israels-Economic-Mira... It's a great read. Speaking from personal experience, Israel is the only place on earth with a startup ecosystem comparable to the Valley.
- shrewduser 10y ago
  have you personally experienced every country?
- lsc 10y ago
  >Speaking from personal experience, Israel is the only place on earth with a startup ecosystem comparable to the Valley. Hm. So, I guess when I was starting my company, the ability to make a lot of money myself made a huge difference; I was able to turn that money into a company... (Now, of course, I understand this isn't what most people do, and after doing it myself, I understand why most people don't do it that way. This isn't how I'm going to start my next company, if I ever start a company again.) The problem with Israel, (in my experience, which is approaching a decade old) is just that the pay there was very dramatically less, to the point where, yeah, if I had money, I might want to start a company there, sure, but I couldn't do what I did in silicon valley; I couldn't use my own labor to bootstrap the capital required to start a company, because my labor would be worth a small fraction of what it's worth in silicon valley.

wslh 10y ago

But you can't compare entrepreneur activity in Israel with Spain? Do you?

amit_m 10y ago
Israel is one of the largest startup hubs in the world, with the highest concentration of startups per capita. It is typically regarded as the largest startup hub outside the US. It also has R&D offices of all the major tech companies (typically following acquisitions): Google, Facebook, Microsoft, Apple, Amazon, IBM, HP, Oracle, ebay, Yahoo, AOL, etc. Let's take NASDAQ-listed companies for example. Israel (pop. 8 million) has 89 companies listed in the NASDAQ. Spain (pop. 48 million) has only 8. Yes, that's 66 times more per capita.
- whamlastxmas 10y ago
  What's the source for that, and how do they define "startup"?
  - amit_m 10y ago
    "largest startup hub outside the US": http://www.businessinsider.com/the-20-hottest-startup-hubs-in-the-world-2015-7 http://www.businessinsider.com/the-20-hottest-startup-hubs-i... "highest concentration of startups per capita": http://www.forbes.com/sites/ilyapozin/2014/09/26/the-ten-startup-nation-movers-shakers-you-need-to-know/#5881b6f32ee3 http://www.forbes.com/sites/ilyapozin/2014/09/26/the-ten-sta... There are also more investment dollars per capita: http://www.geektime.com/2016/01/11/annual-report-2015-startups-and-venture-capital-in-israel/ http://www.geektime.com/2016/01/11/annual-report-2015-startu... For the number of NASDAQ-listed companies I queried the NASDAQ site: http://www.nasdaq.com/screening/companies-by-region.aspx?region=Middle+East&country=Israel http://www.nasdaq.com/screening/companies-by-region.aspx?reg... http://www.nasdaq.com/screening/companies-by-region.aspx?region=Europe&country=Spain http://www.nasdaq.com/screening/companies-by-region.aspx?reg...
    - whamlastxmas 10y ago
      The Forbes article says that, but provides no data or evidence. The actual source for the Business Insider link appears to be this: http://blog.compass.co/the-2015-global-startup-ecosystem-ranking-is-live/ http://blog.compass.co/the-2015-global-startup-ecosystem-ran... For the 2015 report, they completely removed the "startups per capita" variable because they decided after lots of discussion with investors/etc that it was a worthless figure. Because of that, it doesn't really seem to make sense for you to push it as evidence that Israel is a good place for startups. Additionally, they do not have data for China, Taiwan, Japan, and South Korea, of which they expected Beijing to probably surpass Israel in ranking. This would definitely be the case if combined with Shanghai. As the comments also point out, they are missing a lot of other cities. The data for this ranking seems to be done through surveys. They don't provide any information about this survey process, and because of that I have to think that it isn't providing very accurate results. There's also no definition of what a "startup" is. If I had to guess, it's any business using their tools. Because of this, it might make more sense to say "Israel has more users of Compass tools than any other country, per capita". This 2015 report also apparently ranks based on dating going back to 2011. If you look at 2015 data alone, Israel is definitely not the top outside the US. Berlin beats it in every category. Lastly, "It is typically regarded as the largest startup hub outside the US" is vague and doesn't really seem to be true. Largest by what standard? Because by any standard I can see, other than perhaps Compass users per capita, it is far from the largest. In regards to "There are also more investment dollars per capita" this data also appears to be questionable. The link describes "investment dollars" without any qualifier for Israel, but cites a number for the US ($60 billion) that is specifically only investment from venture capital. If you look at "investment dollars" in general for startups in the US, the number is over $100 billion. The source is also one that focuses specifically on Israel, so their data gathering is possibly much more deep than the reports coming out of the US. This is one of the cases again where "per capita" doesn't really seem to mean much.
      - amit_m 10y ago
        Sorry, I am not trying to "push" any evidence nor am I an expert in startup ecosystem measurement. If you don't like the "Global Startup Ecosystem Ranking 2015" data set you can link to a different data set of your choosing. Where is the data supporting the statement "Berlin beats it in every category"? Obviously Beijing has huge market opportunities that companies in other countries can only dream on. They will probably get to #2 in the near future, but I doubt that they are there yet. Otherwise, I can't explain the (relatively) small number of internet companies making a global impact coming out of China, nor can I explain how someone like Lee Ka-Shing (Horizons Ventures), born in China and living in Hong-Kong would make 24 investments in Israeli startups and just 1 in a Chinese startup. [1] [1] http://horizonsventures.com/portfolio/ http://horizonsventures.com/portfolio/
whamlastxmas 10y ago
The labor markets are potentially comparable, though the reasons for the shortages are perhaps difference. I mostly just references Spain on the off chance that maybe the reasons are related.
- wslh 10y ago
  Please let me know how they are comparable. The US labor market is also "potentially" comparable to both of them. In US you also have a shortage of engineers for startups and it is difficult to compete with top employers like Google, Facebook, Apple, or Microsoft.

Kinnard 10y ago

The moniker "Startup Nation" owe's a lot to the eponymous book: https://www.amazon.com/Start-up-Nation-Israels-Economic-Miracle/dp/0446541478/ https://www.amazon.com/Start-up-Nation-Israels-Economic-Mira... It's a great read. Speaking from personal experience, Israel is the only place on earth with a startup ecosystem comparable to the Valley.

shrewduser 10y ago
have you personally experienced every country?
lsc 10y ago
>Speaking from personal experience, Israel is the only place on earth with a startup ecosystem comparable to the Valley. Hm. So, I guess when I was starting my company, the ability to make a lot of money myself made a huge difference; I was able to turn that money into a company... (Now, of course, I understand this isn't what most people do, and after doing it myself, I understand why most people don't do it that way. This isn't how I'm going to start my next company, if I ever start a company again.) The problem with Israel, (in my experience, which is approaching a decade old) is just that the pay there was very dramatically less, to the point where, yeah, if I had money, I might want to start a company there, sure, but I couldn't do what I did in silicon valley; I couldn't use my own labor to bootstrap the capital required to start a company, because my labor would be worth a small fraction of what it's worth in silicon valley.