4 ms·

Funny how Calacanis is analyzing DHH's psychological (e.g. is DHH afraid of money?) reasons for not wanting to sell 37signals implicitly assuming that it's stup

by jules 17y ago

Funny how Calacanis is analyzing DHH's psychological (e.g. is DHH afraid of money?) reasons for not wanting to sell 37signals implicitly assuming that it's stupid & insane.

axod 17y ago
not wanting to sell your business for any price does seem stupid and insane. If someone offered $2bn, there's probably a lot of good you could do with that cash to make the world a better place. But saying they'd never sell obviously fits with their PR of having contrarian viewpoints.
- generalk 17y ago
  So on the one hand, I (hypothetically) have a business that I run every day. This makes me immeasurably happy. On the other hand, I have two billion USD, which may make me happy but I'll lose my business, which does make me happy. It's not stupid or insane to keep something that makes you happy.
  - axod 17y ago
    You don't think you'd be able to create the circumstances to be happy again with $2bn? I'm also extremely happy working on what I work on day to day, but I'm also extremely confident that I'd be able to come up with other stuff that'd make me just as happy if not happier in the future :/
- probablycorey 17y ago
  There are lots of things people won't do for any price. That doesn't make them stupid or insane. I wouldn't separate from my wife for $2bn. I wouldn't cut off my fingers for $2bn. I wouldn't murder someone for $2bn. A religious person may not denounce God for $2bn. Certain things are more valuable than money; but what those are differ from person to person. DHH seems to value his work at 37signals more than money, which seems to be working out great for him.
  - axod 17y ago
    I think it's easier to build 'another company you love working at', than replacing a wife or your fingers. If creating a company is so easy if you follow the rules in their book ;) why don't they rise to the challenge, and create a new one from scratch? (For extra points they'd do it stealthy so no one knew it was them).
    - btilly 17y ago
      I think it's easier to build 'another company you love working at', than replacing a wife or your fingers. Surgery can reattach fingers. With $1b in your pocket (assuming your ex-wife gets the rest in the divorce settlement), lots of women will volunteer to be your next wife. (Of course constructing a successful marriage takes more work.) Creating a new company takes a lot of work. No shortcuts available.
  - cookiecaper 17y ago
    But the thing is that there'd be no material detriment in taking the deal. DHH would just have a ton of money, and he could keep working on Rails apps and whatever else to his heart's content. The kind of emotional connection to what is ultimately a meaningless, lifeless brand where you refuse to sell for any amount of money is surely foolish.
    - deleted 17y ago
      [deleted]
    - dhh 17y ago
      Of course there's a detrimental effect of selling the company that I've invested the last decade into. The investment is much deeper than purely financial. It's the pride of getting there, the satisfaction of staying there, and the joy of coming to work with the best people I've ever worked with. What a shallow perspective to think all this meaningless just for another zero or two on the bank account.
      - cookiecaper 17y ago
- ewjordan 17y ago
  I realize this is OT, and I apologize, but I have to ask: is anyone else having a problem where HN has recently begun swallowing all italicized words, making them invisible? The first part of the above comment reads, to me, "not wanting to sell your business for price seem stupid and insane". I can still highlight and copy/paste "ask" and "does", but they're getting hidden in the actual page display. That's Firefox 3.6 on OS X. Worse, any page with italics does not show up at all in Safari or Chrome (again, on OS X) - in Safari, it starts to load and render, but the moment one of the <i> tags gets hit, boom!, the whole page disappears. ...or is there just something majorly borked with my system? I'm not having trouble on any other sites...
- rythie 17y ago
  So by that logic, Would you have sold Google, Microsoft or Apple in the early days for $2bn even though they were profitable and growing fast?
jasonmcalacanis 17y ago
note: as the interviewer i ask probing questions, but it would be a mistake to assume I endorse the positions contained within those questions. getting into the psychology of entrepreneurs is fascinating as the feedback to the interview clearly shows. i don't assuming it's stupid or insane to not sell a business you love. however, it is curious and perplexing when faced with someone who wouldn't sell a business for an absurd return wouldn't you say? If someone offered 10, 20 or 30x the revenue of 37signals I actually think they would take it. however, those type of deals happen very rarely and i don't think 37signals--as great as it is--would get an offer like that. assuming 37signals makes ~$10m a year (~20,000 customers x ~$50 a month on average), $100-300M for 37signals would be such an absurd price that I think you would have to be VERY "unique" in your approach to not take that deal. That being said, there are unique folks in the world. .... what a great interview.
- jules 17y ago
  Financially it would be stupid not to sell. But for DHH this isn't about finances. Would an extra $50M (or whatever he'd get) make him happier? A little bit maybe. On the other hand he'd lose what he helped create and is proud of. He'd lose the happiness he gets from working at 37s. If he thinks of a new big idea would the $50M help him to implement more than having a 37signals dream team would? You are very much focused on the dollar amount and whether it would be a good deal from a business perspective. He is focused on happiness. Maybe he would sell for 100 billion, because you could really change the world with that kind of money. An extra 50 million if you're already a millionaire? Meh.
- btilly 17y ago
  There is some research on this. When people are talking hypothetical money they think it will take more to get them to sell than when you are talking real money. The research on this was based on surveying one group of hunters and asking them how much they would have to be paid to sell their hunting license versus giving another group of hunters concrete offers to buy back their hunting licenses. The median price the survey revealed was something like double the median price that hunters actually sold it.

by jules 17y ago

Funny how Calacanis is analyzing DHH's psychological (e.g. is DHH afraid of money?) reasons for not wanting to sell 37signals implicitly assuming that it's stupid & insane.

axod 17y ago

not wanting to sell your business for any price does seem stupid and insane. If someone offered $2bn, there's probably a lot of good you could do with that cash to make the world a better place. But saying they'd never sell obviously fits with their PR of having contrarian viewpoints.

generalk 17y ago
So on the one hand, I (hypothetically) have a business that I run every day. This makes me immeasurably happy. On the other hand, I have two billion USD, which may make me happy but I'll lose my business, which does make me happy. It's not stupid or insane to keep something that makes you happy.
- axod 17y ago
  You don't think you'd be able to create the circumstances to be happy again with $2bn? I'm also extremely happy working on what I work on day to day, but I'm also extremely confident that I'd be able to come up with other stuff that'd make me just as happy if not happier in the future :/
probablycorey 17y ago
There are lots of things people won't do for any price. That doesn't make them stupid or insane. I wouldn't separate from my wife for $2bn. I wouldn't cut off my fingers for $2bn. I wouldn't murder someone for $2bn. A religious person may not denounce God for $2bn. Certain things are more valuable than money; but what those are differ from person to person. DHH seems to value his work at 37signals more than money, which seems to be working out great for him.
- axod 17y ago
  I think it's easier to build 'another company you love working at', than replacing a wife or your fingers. If creating a company is so easy if you follow the rules in their book ;) why don't they rise to the challenge, and create a new one from scratch? (For extra points they'd do it stealthy so no one knew it was them).
  - btilly 17y ago
    I think it's easier to build 'another company you love working at', than replacing a wife or your fingers. Surgery can reattach fingers. With $1b in your pocket (assuming your ex-wife gets the rest in the divorce settlement), lots of women will volunteer to be your next wife. (Of course constructing a successful marriage takes more work.) Creating a new company takes a lot of work. No shortcuts available.
- cookiecaper 17y ago
  But the thing is that there'd be no material detriment in taking the deal. DHH would just have a ton of money, and he could keep working on Rails apps and whatever else to his heart's content. The kind of emotional connection to what is ultimately a meaningless, lifeless brand where you refuse to sell for any amount of money is surely foolish.
  - deleted 17y ago
    [deleted]
  - dhh 17y ago
    Of course there's a detrimental effect of selling the company that I've invested the last decade into. The investment is much deeper than purely financial. It's the pride of getting there, the satisfaction of staying there, and the joy of coming to work with the best people I've ever worked with. What a shallow perspective to think all this meaningless just for another zero or two on the bank account.
    - cookiecaper 17y ago
ewjordan 17y ago
I realize this is OT, and I apologize, but I have to ask: is anyone else having a problem where HN has recently begun swallowing all italicized words, making them invisible? The first part of the above comment reads, to me, "not wanting to sell your business for price seem stupid and insane". I can still highlight and copy/paste "ask" and "does", but they're getting hidden in the actual page display. That's Firefox 3.6 on OS X. Worse, any page with italics does not show up at all in Safari or Chrome (again, on OS X) - in Safari, it starts to load and render, but the moment one of the <i> tags gets hit, boom!, the whole page disappears. ...or is there just something majorly borked with my system? I'm not having trouble on any other sites...
rythie 17y ago
So by that logic, Would you have sold Google, Microsoft or Apple in the early days for $2bn even though they were profitable and growing fast?

jasonmcalacanis 17y ago

note: as the interviewer i ask probing questions, but it would be a mistake to assume I endorse the positions contained within those questions. getting into the psychology of entrepreneurs is fascinating as the feedback to the interview clearly shows. i don't assuming it's stupid or insane to not sell a business you love. however, it is curious and perplexing when faced with someone who wouldn't sell a business for an absurd return wouldn't you say? If someone offered 10, 20 or 30x the revenue of 37signals I actually think they would take it. however, those type of deals happen very rarely and i don't think 37signals--as great as it is--would get an offer like that. assuming 37signals makes ~$10m a year (~20,000 customers x ~$50 a month on average), $100-300M for 37signals would be such an absurd price that I think you would have to be VERY "unique" in your approach to not take that deal. That being said, there are unique folks in the world. .... what a great interview.

jules 17y ago
Financially it would be stupid not to sell. But for DHH this isn't about finances. Would an extra $50M (or whatever he'd get) make him happier? A little bit maybe. On the other hand he'd lose what he helped create and is proud of. He'd lose the happiness he gets from working at 37s. If he thinks of a new big idea would the $50M help him to implement more than having a 37signals dream team would? You are very much focused on the dollar amount and whether it would be a good deal from a business perspective. He is focused on happiness. Maybe he would sell for 100 billion, because you could really change the world with that kind of money. An extra 50 million if you're already a millionaire? Meh.
btilly 17y ago
There is some research on this. When people are talking hypothetical money they think it will take more to get them to sell than when you are talking real money. The research on this was based on surveying one group of hunters and asking them how much they would have to be paid to sell their hunting license versus giving another group of hunters concrete offers to buy back their hunting licenses. The median price the survey revealed was something like double the median price that hunters actually sold it.