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Law Professor's Response to Black Lives Matter Shirt Complaint

19 points by rishabhd 10y ago

tomohawk 10y ago
"Premise: Saying “Black Lives Matter” is an expression of racist hatred of white people." BLM refers to not just the statement, but also the organization and what it does and encourages. If you look at the BLM twitter feed, you'll see plenty of pictures of BLM supporters wearing T Shirts saying things like "Assata taught me" (Referring to Assata Shakur, the cop killer). BLM organizes events where they chant things like "pigs in a blanket, fry'em like bacon". The pigs in a blanket referring to cops in body bags. It's sad when someone like a law professor thinks its ok to identify with such an organization.
- zaphar 10y ago
  You are making several of the exact same rhetorical and logical mistakes he points out in his letter. History doesn’t matter. Therefore sequences of cause and effect can be ignored (or even inverted). You are focusing on recent history and ignoring the preceding history. What you think something means is the same as what it actually means. He already gives an excellent takedown in his letter for that.
tomjen3 10y ago
Why was this posted here?
- brador 10y ago
  Attempted censorship? Entitlement of a paying class? Anonymous accusations?. Hot topics in the current year.
relics443 10y ago
A) if I would be in a class where the professor was wearing a "black lives matter" shirt, it would be a constant distraction to me. That would take away from my education. It might even be considered theft of my tuition dollars. Professors should stay away from endorsing inflammatory topics. There are just too many issues with it (one mentioned above, risk of alienating students, causing fear of retribution for dissent, etc...) B) if a student came in wearing a "white lives matter," or more extremely, a "black lives don't matter" shirt, how much backlash would there be? I'm genuinely curious what HN thinks. From what I've seen, that student would become public enemy #1, and would most likely be expelled from the school.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- gerwitz 10y ago
  The professor clearly responded to your "tuition dollars" concern, so I'm going to ignore A). But B) is an interesting question that I will assume is sincere. "White Lives Matter" is likely to be controversial for two reasons. First, it misses the point of the Black Lives Matter slogan, as the professor addressed quite well. Scan his response for "focus and exclusion" for detail, there. Second, "White Lives Matter" does not stand alone as a statement in today's cultural context. No one could wear such a shirt and claim it was anything other than a counterpoint to "Black Lives Matter". Thus, in 2016, that counter-slogan comes with a very strong implication of "black lives don't matter." Which brings us to your more extreme case. Wearing a shirt that proclaimed "black lives don't matter" could be seen as a wry commentary on American culture, if worn by a black student already known by their peers to be an activist for civil rights. Even then, the face value of that statement means it should be verboten. And that face value is, I'm confident, what you mean by your question. I certainly hope that any university would indeed expel a student (after a warning) who insisted on making the statement that the lives of other people do not matter. The social purpose of universities is to improve society by increasing the knowledge and awareness of its members. "Other people don't matter" is an interesting stance to take for a socratic dialog around solipsism, but as a personal statement is clearly opposed to the mission of any respectable education institution. Your questioning itself strongly suggests that you (like many) sense an invisible "only" before "black lives matter." I'd like to encourage you to re-read the "focus and exclusion" portion of the professor's response.
simbalion 10y ago
They can go to a different school. This is a disturbing trend of arrogance amongst some folks who think they can enter into a culture which existed before they did, and demand it assimilate to their standards. If the school allows professors to express themselves in their choice of clothing then the discomfort of a few students should not be enough to challenge that. Anyone who's really intellectually prepared for College, especially in the United States where the 1st amendment is so important to everyone, should probably know all of that without having to be told. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think so.
- relics443 10y ago
  Notice how I never demanded anyone do anything. I simply stated how I would feel. Now it's up to the professor to decide whether it's more important for them to do their job correctly, or make sure everyone knows how they feel. Just because they're allowed to make their students uncomfortable, doesn't mean they should. And naturally I'd assume you'd have no problem with a professor wearing a "white lives matter" shirt? And that you'd respond similarly to people who complain if one does?
  - simbalion 10y ago
    Why would I care what T-Shirt a person wears? Being easily manipulated is not a virtue or positive trait. It's not going to help you with natural selection. People who get offended by things other people say or by the clothing they wear are taking the wrong path in life.

19 points by rishabhd 10y ago

"Premise: Saying “Black Lives Matter” is an expression of racist hatred of white people." BLM refers to not just the statement, but also the organization and what it does and encourages. If you look at the BLM twitter feed, you'll see plenty of pictures of BLM supporters wearing T Shirts saying things like "Assata taught me" (Referring to Assata Shakur, the cop killer). BLM organizes events where they chant things like "pigs in a blanket, fry'em like bacon". The pigs in a blanket referring to cops in body bags. It's sad when someone like a law professor thinks its ok to identify with such an organization.

zaphar 10y ago
You are making several of the exact same rhetorical and logical mistakes he points out in his letter. History doesn’t matter. Therefore sequences of cause and effect can be ignored (or even inverted). You are focusing on recent history and ignoring the preceding history. What you think something means is the same as what it actually means. He already gives an excellent takedown in his letter for that.

tomjen3 10y ago

Why was this posted here?

brador 10y ago
Attempted censorship? Entitlement of a paying class? Anonymous accusations?. Hot topics in the current year.

relics443 10y ago

A) if I would be in a class where the professor was wearing a "black lives matter" shirt, it would be a constant distraction to me. That would take away from my education. It might even be considered theft of my tuition dollars. Professors should stay away from endorsing inflammatory topics. There are just too many issues with it (one mentioned above, risk of alienating students, causing fear of retribution for dissent, etc...) B) if a student came in wearing a "white lives matter," or more extremely, a "black lives don't matter" shirt, how much backlash would there be? I'm genuinely curious what HN thinks. From what I've seen, that student would become public enemy #1, and would most likely be expelled from the school.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
gerwitz 10y ago
The professor clearly responded to your "tuition dollars" concern, so I'm going to ignore A). But B) is an interesting question that I will assume is sincere. "White Lives Matter" is likely to be controversial for two reasons. First, it misses the point of the Black Lives Matter slogan, as the professor addressed quite well. Scan his response for "focus and exclusion" for detail, there. Second, "White Lives Matter" does not stand alone as a statement in today's cultural context. No one could wear such a shirt and claim it was anything other than a counterpoint to "Black Lives Matter". Thus, in 2016, that counter-slogan comes with a very strong implication of "black lives don't matter." Which brings us to your more extreme case. Wearing a shirt that proclaimed "black lives don't matter" could be seen as a wry commentary on American culture, if worn by a black student already known by their peers to be an activist for civil rights. Even then, the face value of that statement means it should be verboten. And that face value is, I'm confident, what you mean by your question. I certainly hope that any university would indeed expel a student (after a warning) who insisted on making the statement that the lives of other people do not matter. The social purpose of universities is to improve society by increasing the knowledge and awareness of its members. "Other people don't matter" is an interesting stance to take for a socratic dialog around solipsism, but as a personal statement is clearly opposed to the mission of any respectable education institution. Your questioning itself strongly suggests that you (like many) sense an invisible "only" before "black lives matter." I'd like to encourage you to re-read the "focus and exclusion" portion of the professor's response.

simbalion 10y ago

They can go to a different school. This is a disturbing trend of arrogance amongst some folks who think they can enter into a culture which existed before they did, and demand it assimilate to their standards. If the school allows professors to express themselves in their choice of clothing then the discomfort of a few students should not be enough to challenge that. Anyone who's really intellectually prepared for College, especially in the United States where the 1st amendment is so important to everyone, should probably know all of that without having to be told. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think so.

relics443 10y ago
Notice how I never demanded anyone do anything. I simply stated how I would feel. Now it's up to the professor to decide whether it's more important for them to do their job correctly, or make sure everyone knows how they feel. Just because they're allowed to make their students uncomfortable, doesn't mean they should. And naturally I'd assume you'd have no problem with a professor wearing a "white lives matter" shirt? And that you'd respond similarly to people who complain if one does?
- simbalion 10y ago
  Why would I care what T-Shirt a person wears? Being easily manipulated is not a virtue or positive trait. It's not going to help you with natural selection. People who get offended by things other people say or by the clothing they wear are taking the wrong path in life.