4 ms·

I agree that 19 weeks of training for police officer in US is very low, and that leaves officers poorly qualified for their job. On the other hand, the attache

by mamon 10y ago

I agree that 19 weeks of training for police officer in US is very low, and that leaves officers poorly qualified for their job. On the other hand, the attached video of how British policeman handle a man with machette is nothing but pathetic, the kind of stuff that we regulary make fun of. As the very minimum, if the policeman does not carry a gun he should carry a taser instead. This would resolve machette man situation in seconds, and only took one policeman to do so, instead of dozen.

jgrahamc 10y ago
Tasers are not issued to all British police officers. They are considered to be a weapon and used by specially trained officers. http://content.met.police.uk/Article/FAQs/1400015961061/1400015961061 http://content.met.police.uk/Article/FAQs/1400015961061/1400...
mjlee 10y ago
British police do use tasers: https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2014/dec/22/how-dangerous-is-the-use-of-tasers https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2014/dec/22/how-da... I think you may have missed the point of the video. It isn't to show the most time-efficient and effective use of force against someone. It's to show that gradual escalation of force is effective. They initially keep their distance and wait for him to tire or to make a rational decision. Then they use pepper spray. Only when it becomes clear that he won't give up they slowly escalate force, resolving the issue without major injury. Contrast that with the informal 21 foot "rule" that has been used to justify fatal action: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Laquan_McDonald https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Laquan_McDonald https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/feb/12/mario-woods-autopsy-san-francisco-police-fatal-shooting https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/feb/12/mario-woods-... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2639772/Suicidal-teen-shot-death-police-lunged-knife.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2639772/Suicidal-tee...
TheShark 10y ago
Wow. I'd pay MONEY to see you roll into South Chicago armed with a Taser. Most CompSci people I meet are skinny liberals from the suburbs and have NO IDEA what it's like to live in bad neighborhoods and have ridiculously naive socialist ideas they take from group-think liberalism. The matter-fact reality is we have MILLIONS of individuals in the US that have 0 mentors, are trained to from a young age that compliancy is for punk made bitches, and will kill\hurt you if you try to enforce compliancy with a taser. Good luck with that. The real problem the US is similiar to the problems Liberia is facing with child-soldiers. You've got MILLIONS of young men with no mentors, trained from a young age to be violent, and have no career paths. Not a good combination and it's not the police who are to blame. It's a cultural\systematic issue.
- throwanem 10y ago
  I hope you know you're wasting your time here. But if you insist on continuing, you're more likely to get people to listen by concentrating on historical examples of culture clash, and preparing to counter the inevitable Whig-historical "but that can't happen any more because we're all so much betterer and smarterer now!" nonsense. Also, dial back the personal experience stuff, ideally to zero. As a gay man with unacceptable political opinions, I can tell you that "don't erase my lived experience" only works if said experience happens to produce conclusions that agree with what your interlocutors already believe.
DanBC 10y ago
> the attached video of how British policeman handle a man with machette is nothing but pathetic Members of the public were protected from harm, including officer-inflicted harm from shots fired that miss the target and hit innocent bystanders. Officers were protected from harm, including officer-inflected harm from missed shots, and the harm that arises from killing a person. The mentally disordered offender was subdued, and removed to a forensic unit. (A secure mental health hospital where patients usually have a criminal justice involvement in their care (note that most patients in forensic units would prefer to be in prison.)) That seems to be a pretty good outcome, compared to just shooting him (and possibly any bystanders or other officers). > As the very minimum, if the policeman does not carry a gun he should carry a taser instead. This would resolve machette man situation in seconds, and only took one policeman to do so, instead of dozen. Like this guy, repeatedly tasered in the middle of a still full restaurant with a bunch of other people around? Great policing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2O-QEsv0ZEg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2O-QEsv0ZEg
tremon 10y ago
the attached video of how British policeman handle a man with machette is nothing but pathetic Incidentally, this attitude is a perfect illustration why violence is so prevalent in US society.
- mamon 10y ago
  Why do you think that expecting reasonable level of competence and effectiveness from police officers is a bad attitude? All I'm arguing here is that policemen should have enough training and enough equipment, including weapons, so that it wouldn't take 12 men to take down one guy with melee weapon. Typical two person patrol should be enough.
  - tremon 10y ago
    My point is that "take down" is not the goal. There is more than one way to defuse a threat, and as other commenters have pointed out, the strategy was effective.

by mamon 10y ago

jgrahamc 10y ago

Tasers are not issued to all British police officers. They are considered to be a weapon and used by specially trained officers. http://content.met.police.uk/Article/FAQs/1400015961061/1400015961061 http://content.met.police.uk/Article/FAQs/1400015961061/1400...

mjlee 10y ago

British police do use tasers: https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2014/dec/22/how-dangerous-is-the-use-of-tasers https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2014/dec/22/how-da... I think you may have missed the point of the video. It isn't to show the most time-efficient and effective use of force against someone. It's to show that gradual escalation of force is effective. They initially keep their distance and wait for him to tire or to make a rational decision. Then they use pepper spray. Only when it becomes clear that he won't give up they slowly escalate force, resolving the issue without major injury. Contrast that with the informal 21 foot "rule" that has been used to justify fatal action: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Laquan_McDonald https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Laquan_McDonald https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/feb/12/mario-woods-autopsy-san-francisco-police-fatal-shooting https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/feb/12/mario-woods-... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2639772/Suicidal-teen-shot-death-police-lunged-knife.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2639772/Suicidal-tee...

TheShark 10y ago

Wow. I'd pay MONEY to see you roll into South Chicago armed with a Taser. Most CompSci people I meet are skinny liberals from the suburbs and have NO IDEA what it's like to live in bad neighborhoods and have ridiculously naive socialist ideas they take from group-think liberalism. The matter-fact reality is we have MILLIONS of individuals in the US that have 0 mentors, are trained to from a young age that compliancy is for punk made bitches, and will kill\hurt you if you try to enforce compliancy with a taser. Good luck with that. The real problem the US is similiar to the problems Liberia is facing with child-soldiers. You've got MILLIONS of young men with no mentors, trained from a young age to be violent, and have no career paths. Not a good combination and it's not the police who are to blame. It's a cultural\systematic issue.

throwanem 10y ago
I hope you know you're wasting your time here. But if you insist on continuing, you're more likely to get people to listen by concentrating on historical examples of culture clash, and preparing to counter the inevitable Whig-historical "but that can't happen any more because we're all so much betterer and smarterer now!" nonsense. Also, dial back the personal experience stuff, ideally to zero. As a gay man with unacceptable political opinions, I can tell you that "don't erase my lived experience" only works if said experience happens to produce conclusions that agree with what your interlocutors already believe.

DanBC 10y ago

> the attached video of how British policeman handle a man with machette is nothing but pathetic Members of the public were protected from harm, including officer-inflicted harm from shots fired that miss the target and hit innocent bystanders. Officers were protected from harm, including officer-inflected harm from missed shots, and the harm that arises from killing a person. The mentally disordered offender was subdued, and removed to a forensic unit. (A secure mental health hospital where patients usually have a criminal justice involvement in their care (note that most patients in forensic units would prefer to be in prison.)) That seems to be a pretty good outcome, compared to just shooting him (and possibly any bystanders or other officers). > As the very minimum, if the policeman does not carry a gun he should carry a taser instead. This would resolve machette man situation in seconds, and only took one policeman to do so, instead of dozen. Like this guy, repeatedly tasered in the middle of a still full restaurant with a bunch of other people around? Great policing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2O-QEsv0ZEg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2O-QEsv0ZEg

tremon 10y ago

the attached video of how British policeman handle a man with machette is nothing but pathetic Incidentally, this attitude is a perfect illustration why violence is so prevalent in US society.

mamon 10y ago
Why do you think that expecting reasonable level of competence and effectiveness from police officers is a bad attitude? All I'm arguing here is that policemen should have enough training and enough equipment, including weapons, so that it wouldn't take 12 men to take down one guy with melee weapon. Typical two person patrol should be enough.
- tremon 10y ago
  My point is that "take down" is not the goal. There is more than one way to defuse a threat, and as other commenters have pointed out, the strategy was effective.