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I personally think Rob's dream setup sounds horrible. I love having my own phone -- it was shitty having to look for a pay phone or buy a beer in a bar just to

I personally think Rob's dream setup sounds horrible. I love having my own phone -- it was shitty having to look for a pay phone or buy a beer in a bar just to use the phone. And I don't use my phone or laptop for the local storage. If I lose either one I buy a new one and I reconnect to some accounts and I'm ready to go. That doesn't mean i don't appreciate having my own that I can carry around. Next time I'm hiking in the middle of the forest using Google Maps Offline and want to take a pic of something, I'll think of Rob rolling out his paper map trying to figure out how to get to the nearest camera rental place. Sorry, no storage for pics or maps on your unrolling pen screen.

sbmassey 10y ago
I think he's imagining a world where his map would somehow get an internet connection even way out in the boondocks.
- apathy 10y ago
  Or, in the event that a connection was lacking, local state would be maintained only as long as required to allow usable work to get done. Google "coda" or "intermezzo" or "andrew file system". You might be surprised how many people worked on these things. I was, and I worked on some of them. Somewhat, but not wholly, tangential: when I read research papers, one of the first things I do is to look at how old their oldest references are. If the references are less than 50 years old, one of two things is usually true (sometimes 0, rarely 2, but usually 1): 1) The field is quite new (e.g. CRISPR-Cfp1 gene editing) 2) The authors don't have experienced mentors to guide them through the enormous literature, particularly in mathematics, physics, and chemistry. It is very rare to see Option 1 in practice. It is incredibly rare for someone of Pike's experience to fall into category 2. This interview is not a research paper; nonetheless, Pike did quite a bit of distributed systems research and is familiar with all of what I mentioned. Networks weren't always ubiquitous or reliable, but the fundamental idea of efficient compute resource sharing has always been attractive enough to view this as a complication rather than a deal-breaker.
- solipsism 10y ago
  And have storage for working when the internet fails. And have a camera. And we just invented the tablet. Oh and a keyboard to type with. We shall call it "laptop".
  - Gigablah 10y ago
    And how does this tie back to the original conversation?
wodenokoto 10y ago
I think part of the "dream" in "dream setup" implies that there would be great connectivity in the forest.
PhantomGremlin 10y ago
I'll think of Rob rolling out his paper map I was just down in southern Oregon, and between the frequent "No Service" and the shitty Google and Apple maps, I would have killed for a decent paper map. It's a good thing I had my Garmin app on my phone; it's not reliant on cell service. My parents and I traveled 9000+ miles around the country in 1974, using a Rand McNally atlas to guide us. The experience was far more pleasant than the maps Google offered up just a few days ago. "Offline" wouldn't have helped, the map quality is abysmal. Locations pop in and out of existence as you zoom in. Many features are totally unlabelled (e.g. rivers). The UI sucks as well.
- solipsism 10y ago
  I agree that we have a long way to go before offline mapping (and online mapping in many contexts) is high quality. That's beside the point though. In the ideal world those things would work perfectly offline on the device I carry around. Paper maps aren't categorically better.
- thisrod 10y ago
  I think there is a middle ground. Paper and contact does have a categorical advantage for field use: at least, anything with batteries has a categorical disadvantage. On the other hand, it's nice that you can print 1 map of your own to cover terrain that used to be split over the corners of 4 published maps. And it's a pretty cool feeling when you click on contours that the surveyors got wrong and drag them into the right place. There is a place for automation, but that place isn't everywhere.
- dozzie 10y ago
  You do realize that there is other software out there for displaying maps? Including Google Maps? And some of that software can store maps off-line, if you only care enough to pre-fetch the area you're going to (similar action to buying a paper map in advance)? That being said, I prefer paper maps. Because batteries, because view size, because I personally like paper more than electronics.

sbmassey 10y ago

I think he's imagining a world where his map would somehow get an internet connection even way out in the boondocks.

apathy 10y ago
Or, in the event that a connection was lacking, local state would be maintained only as long as required to allow usable work to get done. Google "coda" or "intermezzo" or "andrew file system". You might be surprised how many people worked on these things. I was, and I worked on some of them. Somewhat, but not wholly, tangential: when I read research papers, one of the first things I do is to look at how old their oldest references are. If the references are less than 50 years old, one of two things is usually true (sometimes 0, rarely 2, but usually 1): 1) The field is quite new (e.g. CRISPR-Cfp1 gene editing) 2) The authors don't have experienced mentors to guide them through the enormous literature, particularly in mathematics, physics, and chemistry. It is very rare to see Option 1 in practice. It is incredibly rare for someone of Pike's experience to fall into category 2. This interview is not a research paper; nonetheless, Pike did quite a bit of distributed systems research and is familiar with all of what I mentioned. Networks weren't always ubiquitous or reliable, but the fundamental idea of efficient compute resource sharing has always been attractive enough to view this as a complication rather than a deal-breaker.
solipsism 10y ago
And have storage for working when the internet fails. And have a camera. And we just invented the tablet. Oh and a keyboard to type with. We shall call it "laptop".
- Gigablah 10y ago
  And how does this tie back to the original conversation?

wodenokoto 10y ago

I think part of the "dream" in "dream setup" implies that there would be great connectivity in the forest.

PhantomGremlin 10y ago

I'll think of Rob rolling out his paper map I was just down in southern Oregon, and between the frequent "No Service" and the shitty Google and Apple maps, I would have killed for a decent paper map. It's a good thing I had my Garmin app on my phone; it's not reliant on cell service. My parents and I traveled 9000+ miles around the country in 1974, using a Rand McNally atlas to guide us. The experience was far more pleasant than the maps Google offered up just a few days ago. "Offline" wouldn't have helped, the map quality is abysmal. Locations pop in and out of existence as you zoom in. Many features are totally unlabelled (e.g. rivers). The UI sucks as well.

solipsism 10y ago
I agree that we have a long way to go before offline mapping (and online mapping in many contexts) is high quality. That's beside the point though. In the ideal world those things would work perfectly offline on the device I carry around. Paper maps aren't categorically better.
thisrod 10y ago
I think there is a middle ground. Paper and contact does have a categorical advantage for field use: at least, anything with batteries has a categorical disadvantage. On the other hand, it's nice that you can print 1 map of your own to cover terrain that used to be split over the corners of 4 published maps. And it's a pretty cool feeling when you click on contours that the surveyors got wrong and drag them into the right place. There is a place for automation, but that place isn't everywhere.
dozzie 10y ago
You do realize that there is other software out there for displaying maps? Including Google Maps? And some of that software can store maps off-line, if you only care enough to pre-fetch the area you're going to (similar action to buying a paper map in advance)? That being said, I prefer paper maps. Because batteries, because view size, because I personally like paper more than electronics.