5 ms·

Also to anyone interested in the history of the transition between 2D and 3D gaming. It's totally a fetish of mine, this strange period we got from 93-97 in 3D

Also to anyone interested in the history of the transition between 2D and 3D gaming. It's totally a fetish of mine, this strange period we got from 93-97 in 3D gaming, from flat-shaded polygons to the strange pixelated quad-polygons of the Sega Saturn right up until we finally got something like Majora's Mask on the N64 that truly started to demonstrate its full power. The developments and the history are fascinating.

Waterluvian 10y ago
Any feelings on Marathon on the Mac? I recall that game feeling quite groundbreaking in the semi 3d era.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- bashinator 10y ago
  I remember I showed it to my 80-something grandmother when Marathon first came out, on the ridicuously-overpowered computer used by the department IT guy who shared an office with my mom. My grandma said, "It's beyond my ken." And she was an amazing person - taught high school math to disadvantaged urban kids (in the city - she commuted), and this was just a moment where I could see someone experiencing a whole new reality, and rejecting it for the effort it would take to accept it. And that's not always a bad thing. My grandmother had no real reason to be familiar with what would become a huge industry and culture. But it was eye-opening to see that rejection happening.
  - debaserab2 10y ago
    That's really interesting that you were able to observe and understand that. I remember a few moments like that in my childhood when the internet age was dawning and not being able to comprehend how a person could reject something so marvel. Now that I'm much older, I'm able to understand why someone might want to do that now. I wonder what it will be in my lifetime that I will be unable or unwilling to comprehend.
- steveklabnik 10y ago
  I have many feels for Marathon. Such an amazing series of games. And then the vidmaster community... I still remember when I completed the first level of Matathon 2 that way. So awesome. http://marathon.bungie.org/vidmaster/vidchallenge.html http://marathon.bungie.org/vidmaster/vidchallenge.html
  - Gracana 10y ago
    I loved Marathon. The atmosphere was amazing and the story/setting is wildly intricate and intertwined. http://marathon.bungie.org/story/ http://marathon.bungie.org/story/
- lostgame 10y ago
  Ahah, this one, I find particularly awkward. My favourite 3D transitional console/games have to be the Sega Saturn. The PS1 and N64 both used proper triangular polygons, so they looked as we expect to see the average 3D game these days. The Saturn's quad-poly setup made the games look particularly peculiar to the eye today, especially when the camera was focusing on close-up polygons. Some games looked absolutely beautiful (Sonic R comes to mind, Burning Rangers, as well...anything late in the system's development) while some games looked very awkward, especially compared to their PS1 counterparts (here's looking at you, Tomb Raider). Back to Marathon, it's character sprites looked particularly 'pasted-on.' Doom's enemies, for instance, seemed to be designed to be less human-like perhaps so they'd look less shit in 3D (those demon-eye monster things come to mind). Other than that, Marathon is just Doom II, graphically.
  - astrange 10y ago
    Marathon used a different system of level-building (portals instead of BSPs) that let you stack levels vertically, so it's actually possible to create a lot of nice architecture with some good view faking. Also, it's one of the few games with a good story, and maybe the only FPS. There is one major thing missing for constructing a "modern" game with it, and that's scripting - the open source version has Lua, but I don't know if anyone's written anything amazing with it. 3rd party scenarios for Marathon were also oddly literary, like this one where you go back in time and save Leonardo da Vinci from aliens. http://nardo.bungie.org/alephone.php http://nardo.bungie.org/alephone.php
Keyframe 10y ago
Gotta love that bizarre Saturn handling of things. Quad-polygons instead of tris, and it's not even polygons but (textured) sprites which are actually transformed into quad-polygons. Wonderful time.
- ascagnel_ 10y ago
  How much of that was because the Saturn lacked true 3D processing hardware, opting instead for hardware that could better operate on 2D sprites?
  - Keyframe 10y ago
    You can find more information here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_OchOV_WDg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_OchOV_WDg

Waterluvian 10y ago

Any feelings on Marathon on the Mac? I recall that game feeling quite groundbreaking in the semi 3d era.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
bashinator 10y ago
I remember I showed it to my 80-something grandmother when Marathon first came out, on the ridicuously-overpowered computer used by the department IT guy who shared an office with my mom. My grandma said, "It's beyond my ken." And she was an amazing person - taught high school math to disadvantaged urban kids (in the city - she commuted), and this was just a moment where I could see someone experiencing a whole new reality, and rejecting it for the effort it would take to accept it. And that's not always a bad thing. My grandmother had no real reason to be familiar with what would become a huge industry and culture. But it was eye-opening to see that rejection happening.
- debaserab2 10y ago
  That's really interesting that you were able to observe and understand that. I remember a few moments like that in my childhood when the internet age was dawning and not being able to comprehend how a person could reject something so marvel. Now that I'm much older, I'm able to understand why someone might want to do that now. I wonder what it will be in my lifetime that I will be unable or unwilling to comprehend.
steveklabnik 10y ago
I have many feels for Marathon. Such an amazing series of games. And then the vidmaster community... I still remember when I completed the first level of Matathon 2 that way. So awesome. http://marathon.bungie.org/vidmaster/vidchallenge.html http://marathon.bungie.org/vidmaster/vidchallenge.html
- Gracana 10y ago
  I loved Marathon. The atmosphere was amazing and the story/setting is wildly intricate and intertwined. http://marathon.bungie.org/story/ http://marathon.bungie.org/story/
lostgame 10y ago
Ahah, this one, I find particularly awkward. My favourite 3D transitional console/games have to be the Sega Saturn. The PS1 and N64 both used proper triangular polygons, so they looked as we expect to see the average 3D game these days. The Saturn's quad-poly setup made the games look particularly peculiar to the eye today, especially when the camera was focusing on close-up polygons. Some games looked absolutely beautiful (Sonic R comes to mind, Burning Rangers, as well...anything late in the system's development) while some games looked very awkward, especially compared to their PS1 counterparts (here's looking at you, Tomb Raider). Back to Marathon, it's character sprites looked particularly 'pasted-on.' Doom's enemies, for instance, seemed to be designed to be less human-like perhaps so they'd look less shit in 3D (those demon-eye monster things come to mind). Other than that, Marathon is just Doom II, graphically.
- astrange 10y ago
  Marathon used a different system of level-building (portals instead of BSPs) that let you stack levels vertically, so it's actually possible to create a lot of nice architecture with some good view faking. Also, it's one of the few games with a good story, and maybe the only FPS. There is one major thing missing for constructing a "modern" game with it, and that's scripting - the open source version has Lua, but I don't know if anyone's written anything amazing with it. 3rd party scenarios for Marathon were also oddly literary, like this one where you go back in time and save Leonardo da Vinci from aliens. http://nardo.bungie.org/alephone.php http://nardo.bungie.org/alephone.php

Keyframe 10y ago

Gotta love that bizarre Saturn handling of things. Quad-polygons instead of tris, and it's not even polygons but (textured) sprites which are actually transformed into quad-polygons. Wonderful time.

ascagnel_ 10y ago
How much of that was because the Saturn lacked true 3D processing hardware, opting instead for hardware that could better operate on 2D sprites?
- Keyframe 10y ago
  You can find more information here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_OchOV_WDg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_OchOV_WDg