4 ms·

That is one half of the problem, the other half is that the police lives in constant fear, because everybody might have a gun. And this is not being fixed becau

That is one half of the problem, the other half is that the police lives in constant fear, because everybody might have a gun. And this is not being fixed because of a powerful lobby. I think police itself is hard to fix, because the system is so federated. There is nobody, who can just say: "Alright, now the standards are a, b and c."

gkop 10y ago
If this were the reason, I would expect police unions to speak up in favor of gun control.
- jMyles 10y ago
  They may yet. This is, to my way of thinking, a seriously dystopian situation.
- allendoerfer 10y ago
  Since some of their members would lose their jobs or at least some nice toys, I don't think so.
jMyles 10y ago
I must admit, I don't understand this view. If "everybody might have a gun," why are police, who also have guns, more likely to live in fear than anyone else? In the USA, especially in certain parts such as suburban Michigan, where my wife is from, there are a huge number of guns being carried all around at all times. But I don't feel the least bit unsafe; to the contrary, I like knowing that the people I'm meeting or hanging out with are able to defend the group without our having to call the police. I assert that, at this moment in history in the USA, with gun ownership being what it is and police militarization having gone so far, disarming police will bring greater peace than disarming non-police.
- jomamaxx 10y ago
  " I don't understand this view. If "everybody might have a gun," why are police, who also have guns, more likely to live in fear than anyone else?" Really? It's not hard to understand at all. That you might have a gun, doesn't really assuage the fear that some normal person in a bad mood might pull their gun on you. I live in Canada. Cops are chill here. They are not skittish or scared they might get shot. When cops pull me over in some places in the US, they act like a goddam swat team.
- allendoerfer 10y ago
  In my country police definitely has to act more concentrated and alarmed when dealing with drunk people in a bar or in a bad neighbourhood, where somebody might pull a knife or in very rare cases even a gun. In the US this risk is several magnitudes higher, so I expect them to be even more alarmed and trigger happy.
- csallen 10y ago
  Police are more fearful because their role towards people is often adversarial. They are constantly fed stories about random people shooting at them in broad daylight during routine traffic stops, etc.
- macspoofing 10y ago
  >I must admit, I don't understand this view Yes you do. There some seriously bad areas in American cities. Places where you can get mugged, robbed, assulted or murdered by virtue of just being there. Cops do die on the job.
  - DanBC 10y ago
    > Cops do die on the job. There's over a million police in the US. Last year less than 200 US officers died on the job.
    - macspoofing 10y ago
      Right. I tried to find some stats on the number of civilians killed by police but those numbers are hard to pin down. In terms of blacks killed by police the numbers vary between 300 and 700[1]. I suppose this number is irrelevant because it is a tiny percentage of the total population? [1]http://www.cbc.ca/news/trending/number-of-black-people-killed-by-us-police-still-no-stats-1.3670513 http://www.cbc.ca/news/trending/number-of-black-people-kille...
washadjeffmad 10y ago
I think the 'federated' part of your comment is being far overlooked. In the US, police forces are local and independent in much the same way that DAs are. Hence, there's not really a way at a federal or even state level to correct the prosecutorial/enforcement dynamic that's driving a lot of the problems. Outside of merging precincts to create larger areas of oversight, training, and policy parity, it's a really hard sell to make to all of the thousands of police organizations independently and pretty difficult to monitor and enforce. I don't even think police unions, as effective as they are at organizing internal activities, would be successful in getting blanket reforms to stick. The changes, as currently structured, have got to be from within.

gkop 10y ago

If this were the reason, I would expect police unions to speak up in favor of gun control.

jMyles 10y ago
They may yet. This is, to my way of thinking, a seriously dystopian situation.
allendoerfer 10y ago
Since some of their members would lose their jobs or at least some nice toys, I don't think so.

jMyles 10y ago

I must admit, I don't understand this view. If "everybody might have a gun," why are police, who also have guns, more likely to live in fear than anyone else? In the USA, especially in certain parts such as suburban Michigan, where my wife is from, there are a huge number of guns being carried all around at all times. But I don't feel the least bit unsafe; to the contrary, I like knowing that the people I'm meeting or hanging out with are able to defend the group without our having to call the police. I assert that, at this moment in history in the USA, with gun ownership being what it is and police militarization having gone so far, disarming police will bring greater peace than disarming non-police.

jomamaxx 10y ago
" I don't understand this view. If "everybody might have a gun," why are police, who also have guns, more likely to live in fear than anyone else?" Really? It's not hard to understand at all. That you might have a gun, doesn't really assuage the fear that some normal person in a bad mood might pull their gun on you. I live in Canada. Cops are chill here. They are not skittish or scared they might get shot. When cops pull me over in some places in the US, they act like a goddam swat team.
allendoerfer 10y ago
In my country police definitely has to act more concentrated and alarmed when dealing with drunk people in a bar or in a bad neighbourhood, where somebody might pull a knife or in very rare cases even a gun. In the US this risk is several magnitudes higher, so I expect them to be even more alarmed and trigger happy.
csallen 10y ago
Police are more fearful because their role towards people is often adversarial. They are constantly fed stories about random people shooting at them in broad daylight during routine traffic stops, etc.
macspoofing 10y ago
>I must admit, I don't understand this view Yes you do. There some seriously bad areas in American cities. Places where you can get mugged, robbed, assulted or murdered by virtue of just being there. Cops do die on the job.
- DanBC 10y ago
  > Cops do die on the job. There's over a million police in the US. Last year less than 200 US officers died on the job.
  - macspoofing 10y ago
    Right. I tried to find some stats on the number of civilians killed by police but those numbers are hard to pin down. In terms of blacks killed by police the numbers vary between 300 and 700[1]. I suppose this number is irrelevant because it is a tiny percentage of the total population? [1]http://www.cbc.ca/news/trending/number-of-black-people-killed-by-us-police-still-no-stats-1.3670513 http://www.cbc.ca/news/trending/number-of-black-people-kille...

washadjeffmad 10y ago

I think the 'federated' part of your comment is being far overlooked. In the US, police forces are local and independent in much the same way that DAs are. Hence, there's not really a way at a federal or even state level to correct the prosecutorial/enforcement dynamic that's driving a lot of the problems. Outside of merging precincts to create larger areas of oversight, training, and policy parity, it's a really hard sell to make to all of the thousands of police organizations independently and pretty difficult to monitor and enforce. I don't even think police unions, as effective as they are at organizing internal activities, would be successful in getting blanket reforms to stick. The changes, as currently structured, have got to be from within.