8 ms·

As Glaciers Melt in Alaska, Landslides Follow

50 points by cookscar 10y ago

_nalply 10y ago
Similar problems in Switzerland. After the Lower Grindelwald Glacier partially melt to generate a lake, there were worries that a sudden outbreak would flood Interlaken. Also there were landslides. A short tunnel to drain the lake has been bored.
GarrisonPrime 10y ago
Keep in mind that glaciers always melt. And cause landslides. And new ones form. Been happening for millions of years.
- theothermkn 10y ago
  > Keep in mind that glaciers always melt. And cause landslides. And new ones form. Been happening for millions of years. Keep this in mind, from the article: > Scientists say the slides will most likely continue as warming temperatures cause more glacial melt. Also, keep in mind that mussel shells were 27% thicker in 1970 than they are now, due to ocean acidification. Keep in mind we just came out of a streak of the 12 hottest months on record, and, lest we feel complacent, that's only because the 13th month was the second hottest on record. Keep in mind that we're about 4 years away from having no glaciers in Glacier National Park. In the completely neutral spirit of keeping things in mind, keep all those things in mind, too. As a matter of fact, I recommend to you, and to everyone here, go online and find climate-related things to keep in mind. Thank you for your concern.
  - alexandrerond 10y ago
    Nothing we can't fix with an app...
  - Turing_Machine 10y ago
    "Keep in mind we just came out of a streak of the 12 hottest months on record" Keep in mind that "on record" covers less than an eyeblink, geologically speaking, and that we have evidence that the earth has been both much warmer and much colder than it is now. Not just millions of years ago, either. On the warm side, the Vikings had dairy farms in Greenland, some of which are only now emerging from the ice. That's only 1,000 years ago, and the temperatures were clearly warmer than they are now (not only are there no dairy farms in Greenland today, but quite obviously the farms were not frozen in the ice when they were in operation). http://naturalhistory.si.edu/vikings/voyage/subset/greenland/archeo.html http://naturalhistory.si.edu/vikings/voyage/subset/greenland... On the cold side, most of the American Midwest and central Canada was covered in several miles of ice as recently as 11,000 years ago.
- dreamsofdragons 10y ago
  Where are these new ones forming exactly?
  - lostlogin 10y ago
    Mainly in the base of the freezers at work which don't seem to thrive on humidity.
  - Turing_Machine 10y ago
    The glaciers have been receding for about the last 11,000 years. They'll be back. It's happened many times.
    - dreamsofdragons 10y ago
      Perhaps, perhaps not. With enough CO2 in the atmosphere, we could trigger an irreversible cascade. We'll essentially turn the planet into a second Venus. Your glib confidence is misplaced, as there isn't anyone who can say for certain how this will turn out.
      - Turing_Machine 10y ago
        "Your glib confidence is misplaced" Not any more than your Chicken Little "sky is falling" schtick. "Glib", indeed. Your "Venus" idea is absurd. The CO2 level in the Earth's atmosphere is currently around 400 ppm. It's been as high as 8,000 ppm in the geologic past without the Earth turning into Venus. Venus's atmosphere, by comparison, is 96.5% CO2. That's 965,000 ppm. It should be obvious that a) all of the CO2 in fossil fuels was in the atmosphere at one time (that's what "fossil fuel" means) and b) the Earth did not have Venus-like conditions when it was.
- ceejayoz 10y ago
  That's like comforting the family of a shooting victim with "don't forget! animals die, it happens all the time!"
  - refurb 10y ago
    That's a terrible analogy.
    - ceejayoz 10y ago
      That's a terrible critique. Care to elaborate in a way that can be discussed productively?
  - GarrisonPrime 10y ago
    Well, that's basically how religion comforts the family of someone who has died.
nvahalik 10y ago
It is amazing how both adaptable and yet resistant to change we are. We are so afraid of change—yet what comes just might be better than what we have now.
- akiselev 10y ago
  That's been the human situation for all of history. Psychologically we are terribly conservative and fragile but physically, we're the ultimate product of billions of years of evolution, having survived much bigger environmental changes in the meantime than we see today. We may not like it when we have to, but we are by far the best in the known universe at adapting to and changing our environment. Unfortunately, it remains to be seen how many of us will survive this process of adaptation.
  - avar 10y ago
    Just charting the world population by latitude shows that we're still living in a relatively narrow area of the planet where conditions are just right. We're flexible, but still very tied to a fragile ecology. 1. https://goo.gl/images/bGCPHr https://goo.gl/images/bGCPHr
    - akiselev 10y ago
      And yet, not only did we survive the last glacial period [1] which lasted ten times longer than agricultural civilization has thus far, but we used the lower temperatures to spread through entire continents and migrate across oceans that had isolated us before. We have seven billion more people on Earth now, so naturally only those that are born in or migrate to the regions capable of supporting such density survive. All I said is that humaninty's ability to adapt is unprecedented, not that all of humanity will survive shocks to the environment as massive as large sea level rises or a major ecological collapse. However, given our performance over just the last century, I wouldn't bet against the constant growth of our population outside of a mass extinction event like a super volcano or large asteroid.
      - 10y ago
japhyr 10y ago
The original article in Alaska Dispatch News has more pictures of the landslide in Glacier Bay, it's pretty impressive. http://www.adn.com/alaska-news/2016/07/02/massive-landslide-crashes-onto-glacier-in-southeast-alaska/ http://www.adn.com/alaska-news/2016/07/02/massive-landslide-...
teslaberry 10y ago
global warming will kill us all.

50 points by cookscar 10y ago

Similar problems in Switzerland. After the Lower Grindelwald Glacier partially melt to generate a lake, there were worries that a sudden outbreak would flood Interlaken. Also there were landslides. A short tunnel to drain the lake has been bored.

GarrisonPrime 10y ago

Keep in mind that glaciers always melt. And cause landslides. And new ones form. Been happening for millions of years.

theothermkn 10y ago
> Keep in mind that glaciers always melt. And cause landslides. And new ones form. Been happening for millions of years. Keep this in mind, from the article: > Scientists say the slides will most likely continue as warming temperatures cause more glacial melt. Also, keep in mind that mussel shells were 27% thicker in 1970 than they are now, due to ocean acidification. Keep in mind we just came out of a streak of the 12 hottest months on record, and, lest we feel complacent, that's only because the 13th month was the second hottest on record. Keep in mind that we're about 4 years away from having no glaciers in Glacier National Park. In the completely neutral spirit of keeping things in mind, keep all those things in mind, too. As a matter of fact, I recommend to you, and to everyone here, go online and find climate-related things to keep in mind. Thank you for your concern.
- alexandrerond 10y ago
  Nothing we can't fix with an app...
- Turing_Machine 10y ago
  "Keep in mind we just came out of a streak of the 12 hottest months on record" Keep in mind that "on record" covers less than an eyeblink, geologically speaking, and that we have evidence that the earth has been both much warmer and much colder than it is now. Not just millions of years ago, either. On the warm side, the Vikings had dairy farms in Greenland, some of which are only now emerging from the ice. That's only 1,000 years ago, and the temperatures were clearly warmer than they are now (not only are there no dairy farms in Greenland today, but quite obviously the farms were not frozen in the ice when they were in operation). http://naturalhistory.si.edu/vikings/voyage/subset/greenland/archeo.html http://naturalhistory.si.edu/vikings/voyage/subset/greenland... On the cold side, most of the American Midwest and central Canada was covered in several miles of ice as recently as 11,000 years ago.
dreamsofdragons 10y ago
Where are these new ones forming exactly?
- lostlogin 10y ago
  Mainly in the base of the freezers at work which don't seem to thrive on humidity.
- Turing_Machine 10y ago
  The glaciers have been receding for about the last 11,000 years. They'll be back. It's happened many times.
  - dreamsofdragons 10y ago
    Perhaps, perhaps not. With enough CO2 in the atmosphere, we could trigger an irreversible cascade. We'll essentially turn the planet into a second Venus. Your glib confidence is misplaced, as there isn't anyone who can say for certain how this will turn out.
    - Turing_Machine 10y ago
      "Your glib confidence is misplaced" Not any more than your Chicken Little "sky is falling" schtick. "Glib", indeed. Your "Venus" idea is absurd. The CO2 level in the Earth's atmosphere is currently around 400 ppm. It's been as high as 8,000 ppm in the geologic past without the Earth turning into Venus. Venus's atmosphere, by comparison, is 96.5% CO2. That's 965,000 ppm. It should be obvious that a) all of the CO2 in fossil fuels was in the atmosphere at one time (that's what "fossil fuel" means) and b) the Earth did not have Venus-like conditions when it was.
ceejayoz 10y ago
That's like comforting the family of a shooting victim with "don't forget! animals die, it happens all the time!"
- refurb 10y ago
  That's a terrible analogy.
  - ceejayoz 10y ago
    That's a terrible critique. Care to elaborate in a way that can be discussed productively?
- GarrisonPrime 10y ago
  Well, that's basically how religion comforts the family of someone who has died.

nvahalik 10y ago

It is amazing how both adaptable and yet resistant to change we are. We are so afraid of change—yet what comes just might be better than what we have now.

akiselev 10y ago
That's been the human situation for all of history. Psychologically we are terribly conservative and fragile but physically, we're the ultimate product of billions of years of evolution, having survived much bigger environmental changes in the meantime than we see today. We may not like it when we have to, but we are by far the best in the known universe at adapting to and changing our environment. Unfortunately, it remains to be seen how many of us will survive this process of adaptation.
- avar 10y ago
  Just charting the world population by latitude shows that we're still living in a relatively narrow area of the planet where conditions are just right. We're flexible, but still very tied to a fragile ecology. 1. https://goo.gl/images/bGCPHr https://goo.gl/images/bGCPHr
  - akiselev 10y ago
    And yet, not only did we survive the last glacial period [1] which lasted ten times longer than agricultural civilization has thus far, but we used the lower temperatures to spread through entire continents and migrate across oceans that had isolated us before. We have seven billion more people on Earth now, so naturally only those that are born in or migrate to the regions capable of supporting such density survive. All I said is that humaninty's ability to adapt is unprecedented, not that all of humanity will survive shocks to the environment as massive as large sea level rises or a major ecological collapse. However, given our performance over just the last century, I wouldn't bet against the constant growth of our population outside of a mass extinction event like a super volcano or large asteroid.
    - 10y ago

japhyr 10y ago

The original article in Alaska Dispatch News has more pictures of the landslide in Glacier Bay, it's pretty impressive. http://www.adn.com/alaska-news/2016/07/02/massive-landslide-crashes-onto-glacier-in-southeast-alaska/ http://www.adn.com/alaska-news/2016/07/02/massive-landslide-...

teslaberry 10y ago

global warming will kill us all.