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When I was at (unnamed-giant-online-retailer) we had a big project for a while that resulted in having standups that had about a dozen people in them and lasted

When I was at (unnamed-giant-online-retailer) we had a big project for a while that resulted in having standups that had about a dozen people in them and lasted about 45 minutes to an hour typically. Every day. My mind still boggles how nobody else questioned such a misuse of resources.

qihqi 10y ago
I was at (unnamed-giant-online-retailer) and a team of 12 too. Our rule is to speak with one foot standing so you have to speak fast... It takes 90 seconds per person usually, sometimes ending with "hey Dave, I need your help in X, let's talk it afterwards". Same process run by different group will feel different.
- Udik 10y ago
  Oh really? And, tell me, do you agree to speak with your foot standing for 90 seconds? What about, I don't know, with someone pinching you or kicking your arse? Would that further reduce the time? Seriously - if I need to talk, I do, for as long as I think it's necessary. If I don't need to talk, and I don't need to hear other people's updates, this is just, how can I put it? Humiliating.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- turar 10y ago
  What about jumping up and down while giving your update? That could literally become an Amazon version of "how high" meme.
- Udik 10y ago
  > sometimes ending with "hey Dave, I need your help in X, let's talk it afterwards" Which means, given a 8 hours working day, that you've been needing the help of Dave since the previous day, for an average of 4 hours, and you didn't ask him yet?
  - zzalpha 10y ago
    Strawman. It's very possible the guy thought he could figure it out, but discovered he was wrong and mentioned it in the stand-up because it was the first opportunity that day to bring it up (remember, in a lot of places stand-up happens fairly early in the morning in order to give coders the largest block of contiguous time for development).
    - Udik 10y ago
      > but discovered he was wrong and mentioned it in the stand-up because it was the first opportunity that day Exactly. Which means that he's saying that at the standup not because of any special advantage given by it, but just because it's the very first appointment of the day. Had there been no standup, he would have asked for help anyway. So either: 1) the standup covers up a fundamental malfunctioning of the team, namely that people can't communicate freely during the day, or 2) useful stuff that people say at the standup is stuff they would have said anyway at that time of the day.
bunderbunder 10y ago
A standup's supposed to be a time for everyone to give a very brief status update, and not much more than that. If your standup has a dozen people and takes 45 minutes, that implies that either everyone's taking about four minutes to say what they should be able to cover in 2 or 3 sentences. That or someone's missed the point and your standup has turned into the kind of meeting that standups are explicitly not supposed to be, only without the chairs.
- collyw 10y ago
  To me this is a major problem with agile. No one actually agrees on what it actually is. Any criticism is met with "your not doing it right".
  - zzalpha 10y ago
    No, the definition of a stand-up meeting is literally a quick meeting that you stand up for because it's so fast. A 45 minute meeting is by definition not a stand-up... physically it just makes no sense.
    - collyw 10y ago
      Can you point me to an official definition of a stand up meeting? Or is this just another case of "your doing it wrong"?
      - bunderbunder 10y ago
        Well, there's no governing standards committee on the English language, so I can't really provide you with an official definition. But here's the Wikipedia article - based on my skimming, its description seems about right to me: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-up_meeting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-up_meeting I'm not wild about people trying to be pedantic about rigidly adhering to some idealized Agile-with-a-capital-A. But it's not rules lawyering to say that someone's completely missed the boat. And it sounds like whoever implemented the process at your former employer completely missed the boat.
skylark 10y ago
At (unnamed-giant-bank) for our standups, our scrum master would open the Jira agile board, go through every single ticket in the entire sprint and have the assigned developer give an update. This included tickets still in the to-do category. The developer would literally have to say "no progress" on 20+ tickets every day. The entire team including PMs, design, business dev, etc. would be present everyday for that absolutely excruciating 1 hour long meeting.

qihqi 10y ago

I was at (unnamed-giant-online-retailer) and a team of 12 too. Our rule is to speak with one foot standing so you have to speak fast... It takes 90 seconds per person usually, sometimes ending with "hey Dave, I need your help in X, let's talk it afterwards". Same process run by different group will feel different.

Udik 10y ago
Oh really? And, tell me, do you agree to speak with your foot standing for 90 seconds? What about, I don't know, with someone pinching you or kicking your arse? Would that further reduce the time? Seriously - if I need to talk, I do, for as long as I think it's necessary. If I don't need to talk, and I don't need to hear other people's updates, this is just, how can I put it? Humiliating.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
turar 10y ago
What about jumping up and down while giving your update? That could literally become an Amazon version of "how high" meme.
Udik 10y ago
> sometimes ending with "hey Dave, I need your help in X, let's talk it afterwards" Which means, given a 8 hours working day, that you've been needing the help of Dave since the previous day, for an average of 4 hours, and you didn't ask him yet?
- zzalpha 10y ago
  Strawman. It's very possible the guy thought he could figure it out, but discovered he was wrong and mentioned it in the stand-up because it was the first opportunity that day to bring it up (remember, in a lot of places stand-up happens fairly early in the morning in order to give coders the largest block of contiguous time for development).
  - Udik 10y ago
    > but discovered he was wrong and mentioned it in the stand-up because it was the first opportunity that day Exactly. Which means that he's saying that at the standup not because of any special advantage given by it, but just because it's the very first appointment of the day. Had there been no standup, he would have asked for help anyway. So either: 1) the standup covers up a fundamental malfunctioning of the team, namely that people can't communicate freely during the day, or 2) useful stuff that people say at the standup is stuff they would have said anyway at that time of the day.

bunderbunder 10y ago

A standup's supposed to be a time for everyone to give a very brief status update, and not much more than that. If your standup has a dozen people and takes 45 minutes, that implies that either everyone's taking about four minutes to say what they should be able to cover in 2 or 3 sentences. That or someone's missed the point and your standup has turned into the kind of meeting that standups are explicitly not supposed to be, only without the chairs.

collyw 10y ago
To me this is a major problem with agile. No one actually agrees on what it actually is. Any criticism is met with "your not doing it right".
- zzalpha 10y ago
  No, the definition of a stand-up meeting is literally a quick meeting that you stand up for because it's so fast. A 45 minute meeting is by definition not a stand-up... physically it just makes no sense.
  - collyw 10y ago
    Can you point me to an official definition of a stand up meeting? Or is this just another case of "your doing it wrong"?
    - bunderbunder 10y ago
      Well, there's no governing standards committee on the English language, so I can't really provide you with an official definition. But here's the Wikipedia article - based on my skimming, its description seems about right to me: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-up_meeting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-up_meeting I'm not wild about people trying to be pedantic about rigidly adhering to some idealized Agile-with-a-capital-A. But it's not rules lawyering to say that someone's completely missed the boat. And it sounds like whoever implemented the process at your former employer completely missed the boat.

skylark 10y ago

At (unnamed-giant-bank) for our standups, our scrum master would open the Jira agile board, go through every single ticket in the entire sprint and have the assigned developer give an update. This included tickets still in the to-do category. The developer would literally have to say "no progress" on 20+ tickets every day. The entire team including PMs, design, business dev, etc. would be present everyday for that absolutely excruciating 1 hour long meeting.