4 ms·

50% income tax above €51k. Hardly progressive. So let's say you earn €120k gross as a developer. Using this calculator [0] - input 8571 monthly because of some

50% income tax above €51k. Hardly progressive. So let's say you earn €120k gross as a developer. Using this calculator [0] - input 8571 monthly because of some weird bonuses - it turns out you get €73344,69. That's not all - the company also has to pay 21.7% as a social tax. So in total, you get 50% of what you earn. But wait, there's also 20% vat! Which makes the total tax rate 58.14%. There's NO way a startup in Austria is going to compete for talent with the rest of the world. Maybe Austria works for official company residency but not actual work. >the benefits far outweigh the costs Yes there are benefits and costs. It costs those that are highly productive and benefits the rest. >or excellent healthcare. which young people don't need, and by the time they are going to need it, the demographic situation (in the whole Europe) is going to be horrible and benefits are going to get seriously downsized. [0] http://bruttonetto.akwien.at/ http://bruttonetto.akwien.at/

ju-st 10y ago
Which company pays 120k € for a developer?
- jahnu 10y ago
  In Vienna? Exactly none. Experienced good motivated devs can get 80k if they are lucky.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
pvitz 10y ago
You are mixing up some facts. By taking your number of 120.000,- EUR salary before tax and entering it into the tax calculator of the Ministry of Finance [0], I get about the same number for the final salary. Therefore, the employee had to pay about 39% tax and social security. The employer, however, had to pay the salary of 120.000,- to the employee and about 22% of the salary to the state and social insurance. Apart from that, 120.000,- EUR for a developer in Vienna seems a bit too much. I would expect something between 40.000 - 65.000 on average and higher salaries in the banking / insurance sector. 120.000,- EUR is e.g. the salary of a head of unit in a big Austrian insurance company. [0] http://onlinerechner.haude.at/bmf/brutto-netto-rechner.html http://onlinerechner.haude.at/bmf/brutto-netto-rechner.html
- duckingtest 10y ago
  >The employer, however, had to pay the salary of 120.000,- to the employee and about 22% of the salary to the state and social insurance. That's just accounting fiction. You could as well make it so that the employer pays everything and proclaim there's zero tax. The employee has to make his entire cost (and more). >Apart from that, 120.000,- EUR for a developer in Vienna seems a bit too much. I would expect something between 40.000 - 65.000 on average Well yes, there's no financial reason for someone capable of earning more to be in Austria. Which means there are no companies that could use these people to their full potential. In other words brain drain. Not like high tax is an exclusively Austrian problem. The only country in Europe with sane taxes is Switzerland.
  - the_mitsuhiko 10y ago
    > The only country in Europe with sane taxes is Switzerland. In Switzerland you have to pay for insurance yourself however.
ckastner 10y ago
> Which makes the total tax rate 58.14%. [...] There's NO way a startup in Austria is going to compete for talent with the rest of the world. Your argument is flawed in that it reduces the talent competition to just one factor: the tax rate. It ignores factors such as cost of living (which is, at least, equally important), and quality of life. >> or excellent healthcare. > which young people don't need Nonsense. Young people need healthcare as well, be it for something trivial as flu medication or a visit to the dentist, or something far more serious.
- duckingtest 10y ago
  >Your argument is flawed in that it reduces the talent competition to just one factor: the tax rate. In Europe, London and Berlin have much better access to capital and bigger startup scene; these things have to happen, you can't legislate them. Tax rate and business environment is the only thing that can be changed by at will and perhaps make the rest happen. >It ignores factors such as cost of living (which is, at least, equally important), and quality of life. Where Austria wins how? Don't cite average statistics: how is life in Austria better than the rest for someone earning ~€10k gross a month? Note that's always connected with the tax rate. Want really cheap living? Go to Bucharest, great internet is a bonus, also many local developers, 16% linear tax. Want great quality of life? A waterfront property in Spain, Canarias, or even Bali, some guys work like that. People may stay if it's ok, but to make them move to you, you need to be the BEST at some linear combination of all important factors. >Nonsense. Young people need healthcare as well, be it for something trivial as flu medication or a visit to the dentist Why do you need insurance for that? Just go and pay out of pocket. Btw there's no such thing as flu medication. The only medication you may need is something to decrease temperature, but that's OTC. >or something far more serious. Which is very unlikely if you are young. Even then, outside of US health care isn't that expensive.
  - programLyrique 10y ago
    Which are likely if you are young... Sport-related accident for instance. Especially ski accidents... and Austria is a land of mountains, and ski is very popular there. Young people are more generally more likely to have accidents. Car-accident are also more prevalent (drinking...).
kilotaras 10y ago
>20% vat! Which makes the total tax rate 58.14%. You don't pay VAT on everything. The VAT is sometimes called regressive tax for this exact reason.

ju-st 10y ago

Which company pays 120k € for a developer?

jahnu 10y ago
In Vienna? Exactly none. Experienced good motivated devs can get 80k if they are lucky.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

pvitz 10y ago

You are mixing up some facts. By taking your number of 120.000,- EUR salary before tax and entering it into the tax calculator of the Ministry of Finance [0], I get about the same number for the final salary. Therefore, the employee had to pay about 39% tax and social security. The employer, however, had to pay the salary of 120.000,- to the employee and about 22% of the salary to the state and social insurance. Apart from that, 120.000,- EUR for a developer in Vienna seems a bit too much. I would expect something between 40.000 - 65.000 on average and higher salaries in the banking / insurance sector. 120.000,- EUR is e.g. the salary of a head of unit in a big Austrian insurance company. [0] http://onlinerechner.haude.at/bmf/brutto-netto-rechner.html http://onlinerechner.haude.at/bmf/brutto-netto-rechner.html

duckingtest 10y ago
>The employer, however, had to pay the salary of 120.000,- to the employee and about 22% of the salary to the state and social insurance. That's just accounting fiction. You could as well make it so that the employer pays everything and proclaim there's zero tax. The employee has to make his entire cost (and more). >Apart from that, 120.000,- EUR for a developer in Vienna seems a bit too much. I would expect something between 40.000 - 65.000 on average Well yes, there's no financial reason for someone capable of earning more to be in Austria. Which means there are no companies that could use these people to their full potential. In other words brain drain. Not like high tax is an exclusively Austrian problem. The only country in Europe with sane taxes is Switzerland.
- the_mitsuhiko 10y ago
  > The only country in Europe with sane taxes is Switzerland. In Switzerland you have to pay for insurance yourself however.

ckastner 10y ago

> Which makes the total tax rate 58.14%. [...] There's NO way a startup in Austria is going to compete for talent with the rest of the world. Your argument is flawed in that it reduces the talent competition to just one factor: the tax rate. It ignores factors such as cost of living (which is, at least, equally important), and quality of life. >> or excellent healthcare. > which young people don't need Nonsense. Young people need healthcare as well, be it for something trivial as flu medication or a visit to the dentist, or something far more serious.

duckingtest 10y ago
>Your argument is flawed in that it reduces the talent competition to just one factor: the tax rate. In Europe, London and Berlin have much better access to capital and bigger startup scene; these things have to happen, you can't legislate them. Tax rate and business environment is the only thing that can be changed by at will and perhaps make the rest happen. >It ignores factors such as cost of living (which is, at least, equally important), and quality of life. Where Austria wins how? Don't cite average statistics: how is life in Austria better than the rest for someone earning ~€10k gross a month? Note that's always connected with the tax rate. Want really cheap living? Go to Bucharest, great internet is a bonus, also many local developers, 16% linear tax. Want great quality of life? A waterfront property in Spain, Canarias, or even Bali, some guys work like that. People may stay if it's ok, but to make them move to you, you need to be the BEST at some linear combination of all important factors. >Nonsense. Young people need healthcare as well, be it for something trivial as flu medication or a visit to the dentist Why do you need insurance for that? Just go and pay out of pocket. Btw there's no such thing as flu medication. The only medication you may need is something to decrease temperature, but that's OTC. >or something far more serious. Which is very unlikely if you are young. Even then, outside of US health care isn't that expensive.
- programLyrique 10y ago
  Which are likely if you are young... Sport-related accident for instance. Especially ski accidents... and Austria is a land of mountains, and ski is very popular there. Young people are more generally more likely to have accidents. Car-accident are also more prevalent (drinking...).

kilotaras 10y ago

>20% vat! Which makes the total tax rate 58.14%. You don't pay VAT on everything. The VAT is sometimes called regressive tax for this exact reason.