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Having just had one developer decide not to join our UK based company due to this, then yes I feel brains will be next. I'm certainly thinking about my continu

Having just had one developer decide not to join our UK based company due to this, then yes I feel brains will be next. I'm certainly thinking about my continued residency in the UK. Berlin looks pretty interesting for me, however the tech seem definitely doesn't seem as vibrant as that of London at a quick glance.

johneth 10y ago
> the tech seem definitely doesn't seem as vibrant as that of London at a quick glance. That could change as people decide against London and for EU cities. I'd say Dublin has quite a chance, too (although certainly not to the same extent).
- dogma1138 10y ago
  One of the main reasons that "IT" and developers specifically choose the UK or more specifically London it's that it's the only place where you can get salaries which are even remotely close to what you get in the US. A developer in spain earns about 35K Euro's, a developer in Berlin earns 60K. Deserving or not IT doesn't pay more than most professional positions in the EU and in many places you would be getting paid about as much as some public sector workers and teachers. While the average UK developer salary isn't considerably higher than Germany, the London salaries are considerably higher and it is the only tech hub where developers can break the 100K GBP(~130K US in the current market, but it was 150K+ just a year ago) mark in Europe. Add to that the fact that non-base compensation is very low in Europe in general, bonuses are fairly low, equity is considerably rarer than in the US, large tech companies would give you access to some sort of an employee investment plan but that's about it the UK was and still is pretty important in keeping IT talent within the EU. Given the usual risk averse culture of most of the continental states (with somewhat the exception of Eastern europe and the baltic states) it's quite unlikely that a true startup hub can emerge anywhere else, the UK or again more specifically London had access to a lot of financial capital which helped it to compensate for the usual European aversion from risk, venture capital and the startup culture in general.
  - k-mcgrady 10y ago
    >> "London salaries are considerably higher and it is the only tech hub where developers can break the 100K GBP" This might be true for big companies but certainly not startups. In my experience mid-level developers can expect around £45K and senior £60k (at startups). You could break definitely break £100k with contract work though.
    - dogma1138 10y ago
      More or less but is what's available, same thing goes for the continent, a developer for Amazon in Berlin would be making 60-65K euro's. The UK used to be a big upgrade even outside of London due to the relative strength of the currency(especially during the Euro crisis), but the EUR and the GBP are almost at parity these days so that's gone (if you are making 50K GBP it's 59K US, if you are making 50K EUR it's 55K US these days).
      - distances 10y ago
        Just pure salary comparison isn't enough though. London has crazy living costs, and Berlin's response is the heavy taxation (about 40%-45% including the compulsory health insurance).
        bogomipz 10y ago
        40-45%? Is this true across Germany? Wouldn't this put it higher than Sweden?
        kuschku 10y ago
        That’s after including healthcare and insurances, usually. (Against all rumors, Germany doesn’t have universal nationalized healthcare)
        distances 10y ago
        As the other commenter mentioned, this is after including a compulsory health insurance which is about 15% of your salary. And yes, taxation in this income bracket is higher than in the Nordic countries. Can't say if this is true across Germany. You can also choose private insurance if your income is high enough, which can then be cheaper for you than the mentioned 15%. The income limit for that is something like 55-60k/year, if I recall correctly.
- k-mcgrady 10y ago
  The problem with Dublin is cost of living. Comparing my London costs to a friend in Dublin he's paying more for pretty much everything and usually by a significant amount. Berlin would also be a better choice for a lot of people as it is on mainland Europe so easier to travel to (people can drive with all of their belongings when moving).
cs02rm0 10y ago
One swallow does not make a summer. There's going to be a period of uncertainty where there may be an effect, but if they hurry up and get on with it then some stability should return. If the 15% rate of corporation tax comes in or other measures it could well encourage investment. In the meantime, I suspect Brexit will be a convenient excuse for anyone wishing to decline a job offer regardless of whether that's really their reason.
- tkyjonathan 10y ago
  Hiring in the UK tech sector has largely stopped. There are no positions, unless you are a devop - in which case, there are tons of positions. If people are so interested in saving the UK tech scene, why not hire people already living in the UK? Those people will not be able to survive until consumer and investor confidence returns and they will be the first to head out to other EU countries.
  - ZenoArrow 10y ago
    > "Hiring in the UK tech sector has largely stopped." You're basing this on what exactly? I got a new job this week and there was plenty of people hiring tech talent (I had interviews lined up with 5 different companies within 2 weeks of starting to look).
    - tkyjonathan 10y ago
      Lucky you. I've been out of work for a while and there is also the matter of 700,000 less job ads from before the referendum.
      - ZenoArrow 10y ago
        What sort of work are you looking for?
  - mike_hearn 10y ago
    The firm I work is hiring in London for developers right now. Brexit makes no difference for us.
cm2187 10y ago
Sprechen sie deutsch?
throwaway991132 10y ago
Since putting up a job opening. I have been inundated with applications from France, Germany, Barcelona and other EU places. I have contacted each applicant from the EU and asked them why they want to work in the UK. 1 thing came to the forefront over and over. WAGES. Even one from Berlin commented that the tech scene in Berlin wasn't that interesting at all.

johneth 10y ago

> the tech seem definitely doesn't seem as vibrant as that of London at a quick glance. That could change as people decide against London and for EU cities. I'd say Dublin has quite a chance, too (although certainly not to the same extent).

dogma1138 10y ago
One of the main reasons that "IT" and developers specifically choose the UK or more specifically London it's that it's the only place where you can get salaries which are even remotely close to what you get in the US. A developer in spain earns about 35K Euro's, a developer in Berlin earns 60K. Deserving or not IT doesn't pay more than most professional positions in the EU and in many places you would be getting paid about as much as some public sector workers and teachers. While the average UK developer salary isn't considerably higher than Germany, the London salaries are considerably higher and it is the only tech hub where developers can break the 100K GBP(~130K US in the current market, but it was 150K+ just a year ago) mark in Europe. Add to that the fact that non-base compensation is very low in Europe in general, bonuses are fairly low, equity is considerably rarer than in the US, large tech companies would give you access to some sort of an employee investment plan but that's about it the UK was and still is pretty important in keeping IT talent within the EU. Given the usual risk averse culture of most of the continental states (with somewhat the exception of Eastern europe and the baltic states) it's quite unlikely that a true startup hub can emerge anywhere else, the UK or again more specifically London had access to a lot of financial capital which helped it to compensate for the usual European aversion from risk, venture capital and the startup culture in general.
- k-mcgrady 10y ago
  >> "London salaries are considerably higher and it is the only tech hub where developers can break the 100K GBP" This might be true for big companies but certainly not startups. In my experience mid-level developers can expect around £45K and senior £60k (at startups). You could break definitely break £100k with contract work though.
  - dogma1138 10y ago
    More or less but is what's available, same thing goes for the continent, a developer for Amazon in Berlin would be making 60-65K euro's. The UK used to be a big upgrade even outside of London due to the relative strength of the currency(especially during the Euro crisis), but the EUR and the GBP are almost at parity these days so that's gone (if you are making 50K GBP it's 59K US, if you are making 50K EUR it's 55K US these days).
    - distances 10y ago
      Just pure salary comparison isn't enough though. London has crazy living costs, and Berlin's response is the heavy taxation (about 40%-45% including the compulsory health insurance).
      - bogomipz 10y ago
        40-45%? Is this true across Germany? Wouldn't this put it higher than Sweden?
        kuschku 10y ago
        That’s after including healthcare and insurances, usually. (Against all rumors, Germany doesn’t have universal nationalized healthcare)
        distances 10y ago
        As the other commenter mentioned, this is after including a compulsory health insurance which is about 15% of your salary. And yes, taxation in this income bracket is higher than in the Nordic countries. Can't say if this is true across Germany. You can also choose private insurance if your income is high enough, which can then be cheaper for you than the mentioned 15%. The income limit for that is something like 55-60k/year, if I recall correctly.
k-mcgrady 10y ago
The problem with Dublin is cost of living. Comparing my London costs to a friend in Dublin he's paying more for pretty much everything and usually by a significant amount. Berlin would also be a better choice for a lot of people as it is on mainland Europe so easier to travel to (people can drive with all of their belongings when moving).

cs02rm0 10y ago

One swallow does not make a summer. There's going to be a period of uncertainty where there may be an effect, but if they hurry up and get on with it then some stability should return. If the 15% rate of corporation tax comes in or other measures it could well encourage investment. In the meantime, I suspect Brexit will be a convenient excuse for anyone wishing to decline a job offer regardless of whether that's really their reason.

tkyjonathan 10y ago
Hiring in the UK tech sector has largely stopped. There are no positions, unless you are a devop - in which case, there are tons of positions. If people are so interested in saving the UK tech scene, why not hire people already living in the UK? Those people will not be able to survive until consumer and investor confidence returns and they will be the first to head out to other EU countries.
- ZenoArrow 10y ago
  > "Hiring in the UK tech sector has largely stopped." You're basing this on what exactly? I got a new job this week and there was plenty of people hiring tech talent (I had interviews lined up with 5 different companies within 2 weeks of starting to look).
  - tkyjonathan 10y ago
    Lucky you. I've been out of work for a while and there is also the matter of 700,000 less job ads from before the referendum.
    - ZenoArrow 10y ago
      What sort of work are you looking for?
- mike_hearn 10y ago
  The firm I work is hiring in London for developers right now. Brexit makes no difference for us.

cm2187 10y ago

Sprechen sie deutsch?

throwaway991132 10y ago

Since putting up a job opening. I have been inundated with applications from France, Germany, Barcelona and other EU places. I have contacted each applicant from the EU and asked them why they want to work in the UK. 1 thing came to the forefront over and over. WAGES. Even one from Berlin commented that the tech scene in Berlin wasn't that interesting at all.