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Dispelling myths about the autistic programmer
- stared 10y agoIMHO it is the problem of trying to make things black and white: either being diseases (or worse: used as an insult) or a super-power (or: an excuse). Usually it's a combination of special skills, and special needs (and things which are just different). As with almost every other psychological "deviation" from the norm. Hence "neurodiversity" not "neurosuperiority", or the traditional medical distinction between "healthy" and "ill" (and nothing beyond). See e.g. http://crastina.se/autistic-traits-science-and-the-nerd-stereotype http://crastina.se/autistic-traits-science-and-the-nerd-ster..., especially its message: > Yet, it is good to be aware of the neurodiversity and that other people can have different styles of thinking than ours, with their pros and cons. It’s not a challenge – it’s an opportunity to see word through various lenses! (As long as we respect other’s right to be different.)
- lordleft 10y agoThis is a healthy attitude I think. Like anything, autism comes with trade-offs.
- EliRivers 10y agoTrade-offs. The negatives of autism are pretty clear; what are the advantages?
- T0T0R0 10y agoSo, like, the whole article is about the perception of legendary talents as advantages conferred by autism.
- jackmott 10y agoand those not being real.
- SolaceQuantum 10y agoThe ability to see the world in a different way and provide different perspectives.
- wbl 10y agoI actually like flapping my hands, nerding out about things, and being me. I wouldn't want to be someone different, even if that different person had an easier time buying pants, and wouldn't have gotten bullied as much in elementary school. Oh, and I read at rates beyond what is commonly cited as the physical limit, after teaching myself to read before kindergarden. Some people with very real impairments are against being cured, while some people with mild ones want a cure. And yes, being able to have an opinion and not constantly wanting to rip your skin off means you've avoided some bad outcomes: they probably want a cure.
- EliRivers 10y agoI can understand why one would enjoy the release of hand-flapping if one needs it, but I can't really class it as a benefit of being autistic. Likewise others things that you enjoy; other people enjoy other things. Having preferences isn't some kind of benefit of autism.
- gravypod 10y agoThe problem is that the criteria for autism is very loose. If you restricted your search to only low functioning autistic savants then it might be harder to find someone like this. But that doesn't mean there isn't an autistic savant who is a great programmer/computer scientist. In the end this is a game for monkeys and typewriters.
- lucio 10y agoWhat's the myth that's being "dispelled"? I see the "Alex St. John's infamous PowerPoint" image, pasted in the article, as more valuable than the entire article. St John is harsh an direct, and seems to contain more objective true than the entire article. Maybe another trait related to high-IQ+autism is a profound disregard for political correctness. Is St.John diagnosed with autism? Maybe the part of the brain dedicated to social-political "skills", in an Aspergers-diagnosed brain is really dedicated to abstraction processing or pattern recognition? Of course that the lacking of social-political skill frees your mind to concentrate long hours on complex abstractions. You shun the "social" world, and then concentrate on the mathematical or algorithmic world, where the "entities" have interesting and also predictable behaviour. Thanks for pointing me to the St.John article, it looks like a good read.
- morgante 10y agoThe fact is that people who are actually autistic struggle to gain employment anywhere, including as software developers. The vast majority of programmers are not autistic. The stereotype that they are is damaging both to programmers (by typecasting them) and to autistic people (by ignoring their real challenges).
- lucio 10y agoThen it is good to consider autism an advantage in programming jobs, so people that are actually autistic have special treatment in the sector. The question is: How many out-of-the-ordinary programmers have some form of mild arperger's? 90%? 99%? none?
- morgante 10y agoWe can't just "consider autism an advantage in programming jobs." It's not. The majority of programmers are not autistic and there are large parts of programming jobs which are very difficult for autistic people to cope with. At best, autism is less of a disadvantage in programming than in other jobs. That's why it makes sense to focus on programming as a field for autistic individuals to move towards, though in practice my understanding that QA roles are actually often more suitable. Unfortunately, what you end up with is individuals like Alex St. John taking someones disabilities as a reason to exploit them. That's ugly. > How many out-of-the-ordinary programmers have some form of mild arperger's? 90%? 99%? none? The fact that you're even throwing out numbers like 90% is ridiculous. There's no way that 90% of programmers have "mild Asperger's."
- dschiptsov 10y agoTell that to guys like Igor Sysoev, who outperformed averages by an order of magnitude due to autisticly intense attention to details. Hint: a mild form of autism, what casuals call Asperger, given that one survived childhood constant bullying and confusion about its causes, is actually good to have.
- lucio 10y agohttp://mindend.com/index.php/interview-with-the-creator-of-nginx/ http://mindend.com/index.php/interview-with-the-creator-of-n... This interview seems to confirm St.Johns obervations
- adrusi 10y agoMaybe its neutral or slightly better in adulthood, but only if the autism isn't accompanied by other problems that frequently accompany autism, such as language disabilities and anxiety.
- dschiptsov 10y agoAsperger is nothing like Forrest Gump or the Rainman characters, BTW. It is like Holden Caulfield or Travis the Taxi Driver, or the Deer Hunter, or Rocky the Bum.
- sotojuan 10y ago> It is like Holden Caulfield or Travis the Taxi Driver > actually good to have Something doesn't add up.
- dschiptsov 10y agoEven being a fictional character Holder Caulfield seems to be way smarter and remarkably clear thinking fellow compared to modern cosplaying hipsters.
- ArkyBeagle 10y ago
- thedz 10y agoIMO, whether or not it's true that certain traits of autism make for better programmers is actually irrelevant -- it's not useful for that kind of generalization. Not all high functioning autistics become great programmers, just as not all introverts are necessarily great programmers. And saying that "all" programmers share one or more of those things just becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy where you disenfranchise people who don't think they "fit".
- kstenerud 10y agoI fail to see the fallacy in the St John's presentation. The Gamasutra editorial seems to widen the discussion to ALL autistics, which is not what the original presentation was talking about. It then goes on to say that not all Autistics match the "holy grail". Well no shit, Sherlock.
- pyrale 10y agoThere is no fallacy, just a high level of bias towards a specific type of workforce. Also St John's attitude is quite telling of his manipulative tendencies. That's not someone I would want to work with.
- alphonsegaston 10y agoThe point at issue doesn't seem to me to be whether autism is conducive to programming ability, but that someone is essentially arguing that a disability is a great means by which to take advantage of someone in a notoriously exploitative industry.
- optimuspaul 10y agoI think some of the best programmers are very collaborative and not at all introverted. It's just stupid to generalize like that though. When I'm putting together teams I find I get the best results when I have a mix of nut jobs from across the spectrum of programmer personalities... except brogrammers, hate those guys ;)
- rjbwork 10y agoI don't mind collaborating, and indeed enjoy it. But don't force it upon me by an oppressive open office environment. I need quiet and an environment free from distraction and other people to really dig into my code and produce my best work. Living in a constant state of interruptibility, observation, and distraction will not get good code out of me, and indeed many other devs. I, like many others, can make do, but why pay us so much money if you're going to put us in an environment guaranteed to make us produce sub-par code and products? Seems like a poor use of capital.
- bpyne 10y agoEverything you said plus having a developer assigned to several concurrent projects. Jumping between different project setups, PM's, software designs, etc. is mentally taxing to an extreme. It leads me to make more mental mistakes. Rapid task switching is not conducive to quality, detailed work.
- Qantourisc 10y agoI could be mistaking,but there is a difference between being introvert, and acting it. Also being introvert doesn't mean not being collaborative.
- keithpeter 10y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belbin_Team_Inventory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belbin_Team_Inventory Does anyone find Belbin's team inventory of any use when setting up teams? Do people tend to allow teams to form themselves? If so, will those teams tend to have people with complimentary characteristics?
- afarrell 10y ago> "The internet has kind of killed my 'autistic pride,' so to speak," says Gillmer. "The constant use of it as an insult makes me want to hide it, so I tend to not bring it up unless it feels like I'm not communicating properly." I cannot for the life of me understand why I see "aspie" or "spergy" used as insults on both reddit and tumblr.
- ZanyProgrammer 10y agoAs far as anti/pro SJWs are concerned, I've mostly seen it as an insult by pro SJWs against white nerdy autistic gamergate basement dwellers.EDIT: which annoys me, since I'm more on the Pro SJW side by default.
- bitwize 10y agoQueasy nerds make SJWs uncomfortable because they are perceived as much more likely to display shockingly inappropriate sexual behavior. Since women have the right not to fear for their lives or chastity, the reasoning goes, they have the right not to have any contact with queasy nerds, and so they must be expunged from the places in society where they nest (computing, gaming) in order to create "safe spaces" for women. This is also a subtext in the upcoming 2016 Ghostbusters film: the villain is a queasy nerd who summons ghosts to Manhattan as revenge for getting the mockery and rejection he deserved; so it is up to the Empowered Womyn Ghostbusters to exorcise him so NYC can become a safe space again.
- jackmott 10y agoI use spergy as compliment. But only like, internally in my head, or with close spergy friends.
- bitwize 10y agoI find it quite annoying that we can't say "retarded" anymore but "autistic" and "autism" are valid insults. This has a lot to do with high-profile autistic people such as Christian Weston Chandler, who have a whole host of other psychological and emotional damage that has little to do with autism itself. They are the ones who wear their condition on their sleeve and try to use it to excuse all sorts of reprehensible behavior. Until in the public mind the words "autism" and "Asperger's" become associated with cringe.
- mads 10y agoI dont know if autistic people are better programmers, but what I feel that - from 20 years making software - is that people with these personality traits that fit into the spectrum of autism and who happen to end up in the software industry are extremely vulnerable to being exploited by people with certain other personality traits. Put a narcissistic (or whatever you want to call this type of people - maybe sociopathic? I am not a psychologist) CEO or a manager in a room with autistic software developers and you will could have some great things churned out, but there are probably going to be a couple of heart attacks and maybe worse, if you are unlucky. For sure, there will be some very unhappy people.
- nibs 10y agoWe call this dynamic the nerd vs. nerd exploiter dynamic. Jobs and Woz or Allen and Gates are good examples.
- jackmott 10y agoGates was the nerd and the exploiter at the same time.
- nibs 10y agoYes. It is definetely possible to be both.
- mads 10y agoWas Gates actually the technical wizard that he has been made out to be? It is an honest question. I really dont know. I am sure he had some great technical insights, but I haven't seen anything that would lead me to believe that he was actually a genius coder or engineer.
- duaneb 10y agoWell gates and Allen wrote the original basic interpreter together.
- bjourne 10y agoWith all the discrimination and bullying going around, I think it is good that someone has something nice to say about autistic programmers. Like Ian Murdock who founded Debian and recently committed suicide had Asperger's Syndrome. Despite obvious impressive technical skills, life probably wasn't easy for him. Most companies favor hiring average programmers that fit the mold over "weird people" even if they are amazing at their work. If Microsoft is doing the opposite and targets autistic programmers, then good for them! I see no reason to complain about that. And for the record, the "myth" he is dispelling is a common misunderstanding of statistics. I can say that almost all rapists are men. Obviously that doesn't mean that all men are rapists, it means that the probability that a given rapist is a man is very high. It also doesn't mean that females can't be rapists. In the same way, I can say that a "genius programmer" likely is on the autistic spectrum, without saying that all autists are geniuses and without saying that you can't be a genius programmer without being an autist.
- bluedino 10y agoLife wasn't easy for Phil Katz (PKzip) either
- 00098345 10y agoIt is difficult to judge Phil Katz's case. Phil was very very attached to his father. His fathers' passing destroyed him. His father was probably his best friend. I think that is more important that anything else in Phil's case.
- jackmott 10y ago"Most companies favor hiring average programmers that fit the mold over "weird people" even if they are amazing at their work." Do they? At my company we half-seriously joke when programmers are too socially well adjusted, that they won't fit in. We prefer a bit of spergy. I don't have any idea what 'most' companies think, or if large companies even have consistent trends in their own thinking.
- p4wnc6 10y ago
- bitwize 10y agoAs they say, if you've met one autistic person, you've met one autistic person. It's not just that autistics are all different the same way allistics are all different; compared to the breadth of the entire autism spectrum, allistics are all pretty much the same. You never know what you're going to get when picking from the autistic box of chocolates. Maybe a savant, maybe a person of average intelligence but remarkable coping skills, maybe a person with not much of either. As for "autistic programmers": for those of us with the skill to program, programming is a much better career choice than most, but even that is changing. Since the internet bubble of the mid-late 90s, allistic people have taken up programming in droves. The promise of easy money and prestige made programming a much more palatable career choice for allistics than it had been in the past, and now they've pretty much taken over. Programming is now a social activity. Cubicles are a luxury; the boss insists that seating everybody at long crowded tables with enough room for one laptop per seat, where everybody can hear everybody else's noisy conversations, makes the workplace more "collaborative". You are expected to be interruptible at any moment. Meetings are more frequent. ("Stand-up meetings" have had the effect of increasing the frequency of the weekly meeting to daily, while the original promise that they be short is falling by the wayside.) Some shops have enshrined the doctrine of Extreme Programming to such an extent that you are not permitted to get any work done without another person very close at hand, watching every move you make. Articles for employees state, in a very as-it-should-be manner, that the relevant criterion for determining who gets hired, commended, or promoted is not technical prowess but rather "soft skills", which bears out in reality as the number of tech startups founded by bros and hipsters who only hire "cultural fits" (autistics don't really fit in in any culture) increases. And books and seminars tell the boss that the person who prefers long stretches of working alone because that is how they get their best thinking done, is a danger and a threat to the organization and must be eliminated. So in the modern workplace, hiring an autistic is indeed a very poor choice. Unless you can tailor the environment to their needs -- which approaches impossible unless you know them personally -- you're probably better off hiring the "cultural fit".
- wobbleblob 10y agoI like your comment about cubicles being a luxury. I don't know why they became a funny cliche of office horror. You don't have to be autistic to be driven mad by the constant interruptions enforced by office culture. When they tried to make pair programming mandatory, most of us decided to ignore it. Can't ignore the daily standup though. It just means I will not be able to concentrate until 10:30 every day. If that's the way they want it, so be it
- bluedino 10y agoBrahm Cohen (BitTorrent inventor) has asperger's or autism doesn't he?
- throw890 10y agoI think article is mixing up cause and effect. It is not that autistic people are good developers, but software development is one of a few good jobs for autistic people. There is zero barrier to enter, study materials are free and it offers great flexibility. Most developers would love to do some other jobs. But the amount of office politics, backstabbing etc is not possible to handle for some people.
- cloudjacker 10y agoDispelling the myth that the autistic programmer is much better than more balanced people. Not dispelling the myth about their existence or character traits, because we all work with at least one!
- gbersac 10y agoI still believe that programmers are closer to the autist personae type than the average. Doesn't mean that being a real autist mean you are a good programmer.
- HannibalLecter 10y agoSpectrum programmer here. High Functioning Autism is what my doctor calls it. The biggest difficulty for spectrum kids and adults is to make sense of the abstract perception we face. We simply perceive the world directly. That's the biggest difference. That's why we don't get the jokes unless we spend time developing a response matrix for humour. That's the ticket. Our biggest advantage is we get to hack our own minds. We can become brilliant or we can cause severe damage to our perception if we make mistakes. The most successful autistic spectrum persons all have luck and bright ideas that are executed perfectly. That's tough. We don't get euphemisms either. While I recommend seeing the Temple Grandin film, and I see the similarities to how I view things and to how Temple's perception is portrayed in the film, every spectrum person is going to be a little different in their journey. The best thing any parent can do for a spectrum child is to help them to understand how to perceive better. For me, we had a tire swing on a swivel in our backyard park. Spinning in the tire helped me to develop a center of awareness... an assemblage of my perception. Prior to the tire, everything was blurry and AT ONCE. I could view and process my surroundings but not like other kids. I had no reference. It was all there bombarding my senses. Most low functioning spectrum kids have not found enough of a gravitational or electrical/pain stimulus to ground them and get a full snapshot of their perceptional center. This means they live life completely blurry to things. They will often star off in the distance or at one specific part of an object, trying to understand what they are seeing. Once we get a center, we can then create mneumonic references from that center and trace it back. It's about developing brain pathways to faster interpretive cognition. The most successful spectrum people all have this in common -- lightning fast cognitive response. Sure they can be wrong just like anyone else, but their responses account for nearly all the variables... and that's why they tend to be on the very outlying boundaries of genius. One problem that faces spectrum persons is the robust and painful experience of interacting with neurotypical persons who have the advantage of seeing the world the way they want to. They don't see it for what it is. They see it for how they think it is. That's most of you. You can understand euphemisms because you see the clever connections in your imagination. You've heard them before. You can fake it if you haven't without any kind of painful emotional distress. You don't see the world like a blur. It's clear. You get it. You can skip over things you don't care about. We can't really skip over things like you can, and especially if we perceive any connection between those things and our pursuit of answers. We lock on. We can't help it. I won't give any employers advice for dealing with spectrum persons. Make sure your safety programs have a standard for dealing with all your different employees and do not put spectrum information in the disabilities section -- it's not a disability... it's kind of the opposite. The best place for spectrum procedures is in a section about Violence and Harassment because the most hazards exist there for spectrum persons in the workplace. Communication standards should also have a section about communicating with persons who are on the autistic spectrum.
- thesimpsons1022 10y agoautistic programmers can be great but they can also be a liability. I am not saying this to be mean, it is just my experience. We had a situation once where an autistic person repeatedly did extremely inappropriate things both to people within our company and outside. It got to the point that it wasn't clear whether it was a result of his autism or if he wanted the company to fire him so he could sue for discrimination.
- endzone 10y agosome real abuse of psychological terminology here. most clinically autistic people don't hold down jobs, certainly not professional roles, even if they have a high IQ
- PhasmaFelis 10y agoSo, for the record, this is completely not true. You probably pass autistic people on the street every day. Autism is a broad spectrum. I have hypersensitivity issues, even if loud noises don't make me fall down screaming. I tend towards obsessing over specific things, even if I don't block out all other stimuli for hours on end. I'm not naturally good at reading people, but I've been able to teach myself a fair bit over many years, so human emotions are no longer a closed book. I can look at a low-functioning autistic and understand what's going on in their head, as a magnification of what's going on in mine. And I've got a degree and a 13-year career as a coder. I don't understand why so many people think that autism universally means needing help dressing yourself.
- kosma 10y agoThis used to be a really damaging stereotype and a de facto standpoint of psychology (and psychiatry) for years. I've personally met experts who wouldn't diagnose ASD in people who managed to get married or get a job. I've personally been dismissed because I "look normal" (whatever that means). I've been given several bogus diagnoses because ASD has been repeatedly ruled out based on nothing but presumptions and prejudices. There are no family, job, or looks criteria in DSM-IV. I know ASD folks who hold jobs, have families and are more than successful in life. From the outside, they seem pretty normal, maybe a bit quirky or eccentric. From the inside? The way they arranged their lives to work around the social/sensory problems is something to applaud. The important part? They don't "look" autistic, so most laypeople don't correlate autism with "a possibility for a successful life". Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it's not there.
- endzone 10y agosome real abuse of psychological terminology here. most clinically autistic people don't hold down jobs, certainly not professional roles, even if they have a high IQ
- maerF0x0 10y agoI'm not autistic, i just dont like you.
- 55acdda48ab5 10y agoAutism results from brain and metabolic damage. Autism is comorbid with a huge mess of other physiological problems and early death and is not at all associated with abstract reasoning ability. The idiot savant thing like with Rain Man is pretty much a myth. Whatever happened to the eccentric "absent minded professor" stereotype? There has been a seemingly deliberate and strange conflation of eccentric introverts with sick people. I do not believe "aspergers" exists and I do not think it has anything to do with autism. There's just a narrowing window of socially acceptable eccentricity in modern industrial societies. Behavior that would once attract a chuckle from the neighbors is now "see something, say something" type stuff. I also think labels like schizophrenia and bipolar have expanded way beyond people who are measurably physically ill. Blood work can very strongly indicate these diseases. But mere eccentrics are being shoved under these labels. Welcome to Soviet America.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- salgernon 10y ago"I think". "I believe". "Seemingly deliberate". And yet a statement: Autism results from brain and metabolic damage. Do you think this, believe it, or just think it seems true? Do you have an autistic relative or one that has been diagnosed as aspergers, bipolar or schizophrenic? What skin do you have in this discussion? Your post seems to ask for an interpretation by "truthyness", but your facts are not in evidence.
- 55acdda48ab5 10y agoI can remove the qualifiers if you prefer. I have reams of facts rooted in physiology but this isn't the forum for that. You sound like a serious sperg. I like the term and find it useful, but I won't pretend for a second it's medical.
- dang 10y agoWe've banned this account for breaking the HN guidelines. Please stop making new accounts to break the HN guidelines with.
- salgernon 10y agoPeople with Asperger's are much more likely to have suicidal thoughts and act upon them. http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpsy/article/PIIS2215-0366(14)70248-2/abstract An obsessive personality can lead to an individual working 80 hour weeks - not by choice, but by default. They literally don't know any better and are not necessarily competent to make a conscious decision not to this. I've worked with two suicides, both of which would have scored as Asperger's (a diagnosis in retrospect) and two others that completely broke down from the stress of 80 hour a week software engineering jobs. They didn't need to be taken advantage of, they needed an environment that didn't demand they live under that kind of pressure, and an organization that was in tune to the consequences of applying this kind of pressure to non-neurotypical employees. I wonder if program's like Microsofts deal with this. These are special needs employees - and its sick to read that business people want to exploit someone's disability to further their own careers. The social skills issue is often not for want of social connection, but a frustrating inability to be able to participate. Again, this is a disability, not a choice. The social isolation can easily turn to depression and an unintentional withdrawal from society with co-morbid substance abuse problems. Someone else in this discussion mentioned the recent medical examiner findings about Ian Murdock's suicide.
- kosma 10y ago> An obsessive personality can lead to an individual working 80 hour weeks - not by choice, but by default. They literally don't know any better and are not necessarily competent to make a conscious decision not to this. It gets even worse. Once someone with Asperger's "clicks" into a specific routine, it becomes a pretty challenging endeavor to change it without some external influence. Same with bad eating/sleeping habits. I'm currently in the "works overtime out of habits" phase and it's extremely hard to snap out of it.
- jesserayadkins2 10y agoI was diagnosed with Aspergers early on in life. For a long time, I tried to ignore it. But there's parts that you can't. It's difficult to make friends when you can't read people's intentions or read between the lines. I don't have a great interest in hanging out with people because I often don't feel like I fit in. In my teenage years, it meant that I was a loner who went home at the end of a school days, played games by myself, and that was it. In my adult years, it's been much more difficult. My background is a complete mess. I got a degree in Computer Networking because programming wasn't available, and then later went on to work retail for several years. In the meantime, I kept working on programming projects. On the programming side, I have a 5 year project where I built everything myself, and a handful of 1 year projects, most of which the source code has been lost for. Trying to get jobs in the industry is a joke. Take a look at the above, and you'll see someone who isn't normal, isn't average. I send resumes off and I get "We don't think you'll be a good fit" or ignored. That right there is what hurts the most. I could accept getting interviews and failing them, but being outright rejected before being given a chance, that flat hurts. I've got a lot of traits that come from Aspergers too. I don't have an interest in much besides computers, so I often spend entire days at home and coding or thinking about coding problems. Doesn't bother me to spend 12+ hours in a day just coding. Horrible at eye contact, and don't know why. Monotone voice? Check. Sometimes I'll mean to say one word and say another without realizing it, or focus on someone's meaning in one part and miss the others. I don't have that rage though. Used to when I was younger. But the computer doesn't care if you get mad, and it's better to just let logic take over. I've still got my fingers crossed that I'll find a place that will give me a chance. But if I can't find that, then I'll shrug my shoulders and go back to working retail.
- digler999 10y agocan you (have you) put your projects on github ? maybe if you put 5+ non-trivial projects on there people can see your breadth and depth of skills.
- jesserayadkins2 10y agoI have a github account established, and it has a couple of projects on it. One, a telnet client, is missing. I keep forgetting to add that in. I've been meaning to, once the language is more established, to spread the packages out into different repositories. I know I should have more of a variety there, the trouble thus far has been the 'what'.
- c3534l 10y agoWe've done such a good job with autism awareness that at this point I'm honestly not even sure that people know what autism actually is. Our idea of "autism" has become less Temple Grandin and more the nerds from Revenge of the Nerds. So, yeah. You should probably want to hire nerds as programmers.
- Paul_S 10y ago"work them "too hard" it's good for them and the only way they get seasoned" Oh, games industry, never change. I'm sure people will think this is satire - except the ones who worked in gamedev.
- justin_vanw 10y agoAs someone who perfectly fits the description of an "Aspergers Programmer" I think this is all spot on. Maybe people don't like it, but I will take some introverted geeks who love to code over all other possible applicants.
- xrikt 10y ago> States that people on the autism spectrum are not more suitable for engineering type jobs than people without it. > Proceeds to turn institution that works for people with autism into a game development company staffed by people with autism
- intopieces 10y agoGiven the rate that autism is showing up nowadays, it seems like spectrum disorders are over-diagnosed. People who were once just odd-balls or non-social are now being lumped in with people who have moderate to severe issues, and it's to the detriment of both groups.
- kosma 10y agoAs someone on the spectrum I don't see it as a detriment. Despite a seemingly vast difference between a high-functioning engineer and a low-functioning child, the strategies for improving the quality of life are pretty much the same. Routine, sensory stuff, avoiding meltdowns, recognizing emotions, all that stuff - it's as real for a brilliant but eccentric programmer as it's real for a non-verbal kid with no particular talents. Because in the end, it's about improving the quality of life. I'm on the "eccentric" end of spectrum; for 27 years I've been told that nothing is wrong with me, that I'm just "too smart". I can tell you I was pretty close to joining the 27 club; the piling problems ended up being too much to handle. I came upon the description of Asperger's purely by accident; no mental health professional would even suspect it because I "seemed normal". Finally being able to understand why I'm losing my ability to speak once in a while or getting violent whenever overstimulated wasn't just a relief. It was a life-saver. If I didn't realize it's ASD, ignorance and stereotypes could have killed me. PS. Yes, some people will claim they are "a little bit autistic" out of ignorance or attention seeking. Others will lump clinical cases with weirdos. Both don't change the validity of a proper diagnosis.
- intopieces 10y agoI'm glad to hear you disagree! My concern is that people who might be borderline-or-not-really-spectrum (if that makes sense) will cause people to look at ASD individuals and say, 'well he gets along alright, you're obviously just not trying hard enough.' Despite our best efforts, mental health is a tough topic to educate people on. I still hear 'she's just sulking' to refer to people with severe depression, and it makes me quite sad.
- nikdaheratik 10y agoFound a link to this paper yesterday on the topic and it's very interesting: http://journal.frontiersin.org/article/10.3389/fnins.2016.00300/full http://journal.frontiersin.org/article/10.3389/fnins.2016.00.... Not close to the final word on Autism, but it does a good job of showing how both the causes, and the way the syndrome plays out in individuals, are much more complicated than media portrayals.