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Disclaimer - This is all gut feeling and anecdotal evidence so feel free to ignore. I suspect that jobs being posted to smaller niche job boards (such as Authe

Disclaimer - This is all gut feeling and anecdotal evidence so feel free to ignore. I suspect that jobs being posted to smaller niche job boards (such as Authentic Jobs, which I hadn't heard of until this post) is down overall, but this doesn't reflect the state of job availability. I believe larger job sites are having enough of a network effect that these boards are becoming less relevant. Most tech job seekers I talk to are going one of four routes. 1) LinkedIn (Facebook for job seekers) 2) Indeed (since it aggregates) 3) Direct application (when you know a specific company you want to work for) 4) Recruiters (Let them do the work for you...) On the anecdotal front (within the past year) I have been contacted twice by recruiters that took me out and bought me lunch to try and woo me to another job and once contacted directly by the CEO of a company who did the same thing. I want to make this point clear; I'm no one special just a regular software dev with 15+ years working experience. During one of these lunches the recruiter said to me, "It is so difficult to hire qualified developers that I would say there is a NEGATIVE unemployment rate currently." I have spoke with multiple company owners, CEOs, and others who are in the hiring position and the general consensus is they can't find qualified help. This is just my experience.

steven777400 10y ago
Right now we have about a half dozen open developer positions that we are so far unable to fill. The problem is the vicious intersection of relatively dull work and relatively low pay. We've had to increasingly go the route of hiring contractors since we can pay them basically anything, whereas actual employee pay is set by the legislature who don't win points with voters when they spend more on state employee salaries... So, if there was a legitimate tech job shortage, it would be trickling down to more applicants coming to us (which has happened in the past). Right now, I'm not seeing it.
- spraak 10y ago
  Do you mean you work for the government somehow?
  - steven777400 10y ago
    Yes, an employee of Washington State. The state government is divided into agencies, who can approach hiring differently (some almost exclusively use contractors, other try to use exclusively employees). Contractor pay is negotiated by each agency with the contracting firm; but employee pay is set all the way from the top (the state legislature). So, for example, if I say "I can't hire anyone that meets your 'expert' qualifications for $65K/year", there's nothing my supervisor, or his supervisor, or the CIO, or the agency director, or even the governor can do; other than recommend we switch to using contractors which has its own downsides. There's been an increasing push that has been heard for IT salaries to be "re-evaluated", but it's suffering from politics and all the usual high-level government malaise. It'll be at least 2-3 more years before anything happens, and there's a 50/50 chance that the outcome is "we should pay you more, but we won't." That's the same excuse they've used for not giving "cost of living" increases most years. :)
    - toomuchtodo 10y ago
      > but employee pay is set all the way from the top (the state legislature). Can't fix that broken of a compensation model without significant work (having intelligent representatives run for office).
      - steven777400 10y ago
        When I mentioned the problem to one of the state HR folks working on the compensation thing for IT, she said, "Ask not what your state can do for you, but what you can do for your state." Which is a fine sentiment, but doesn't help me actually fill positions with people who won't be a net negative to the team.
        eikenberry 10y ago
        Have you thought about hiring people for those positions as full time but actually only working them part time? You could probably find good people who don't want to work normal full time jobs but would like the benefits that usually only come with full time employment.
- lukewrites 10y ago
  I'm looking for a junior dev position. Does the state hire many junior people?
  - steven777400 10y ago
    Some agencies more than others. I've recommended we move to hiring "in-training" positions to enable us to pick up sharp junior devs andd give them rapid advancement (within the very limiting structure we have, of course). Some agencies hire exclusively junior devs and leave all the higher level architecture, etc, to contractors. Our agency tries to hire almost exclusively senior devs, and has a real hard time of it. Getting junior devs is easier. If you're interesting, go to careers.wa.gov and do some searchers. It will show all agencies and you can see salaries and requirements. Entry level developer position is generally ITS 3; ignore the "2 years experience" or whatever. We routinely hire ITS 3 positions with no formal experience, just with either some schoolwork or "learned on my own" programming, or both.
    - lukewrites 10y ago
      Thanks, I'll check out the website.
    - spiffyman 10y ago
      Or create your own junior devs and turn them into mid-levels in a couple years. Take a look at the University of Texas's Software Developer Training Program[1]. They have similar problems with respect to hiring, with the additional problem that there is a lot of legacy code in proprietary technologies to maintain. So as a solution they began hiring for aptitude, not knowledge, and putting their trainees through this ~6-month program. The net result is specially tailored devs who know their systems pretty well. They have a strong community of developers who all have a certain background in common. There's a tacit understanding that trainees will stay on long enough to make the University's investment "worth it," but I don't think that's much of a problem. I think most trainees are "grateful," so even though they don't necessarily make what they would in the private sector, they stick around. I went through this program and ended up working there for three years. Have recommended others go through it as well when they began pursuing careers in tech. Can't speak of it highly enough. [1]: https://www.utexas.edu/its/analyst-training/ https://www.utexas.edu/its/analyst-training/
- MollyR 10y ago
  I have a few friends, who can't seem to find any developers on the east coast too.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
jakebasile 10y ago
I can tell you from my own experience that the "negative unemployment rate" comment is false. I have been unemployed since March, and I've had no less than 12 in-person interviews, some out of state, and countless other contacts all resulting in rejections. These were positions I am qualified for, and that I know I would have succeeded at. I've been told it would take me 6 months to start contributing to a Python codebase even though I have significant experience in the language and the problem domain for that project. I've been told I have too little experience mentoring a team despite doing just that at my last job. I've been told I don't have enough JS experience for a position that did not ask for any JS experience. The market right now is poor for a developer without a fancy CS degree, or one without the luck of a golden pedigree from a previous high profile company.
- gherkin0 10y ago
  There's also a bias against the currently unemployed. It took 6 months of hard work for a friend of mine to find a job after he quit one after 3 months without anything lined up, because it was such a bad fit that it was making him depressed. Up to that point, he had zero problems finding a job, the only difference was his employment status while job hunting.
  - jakebasile 10y ago
    Yes, I think that has contributed to it as well. In retrospect I should have started lining up interviews when I saw the company might fold, but I had never had any issue finding employment in the past so I didn't prioritize it over trying to right the ship.
  - 1138 10y ago
    2 years ago I moved to SF from a shithole city. I had taken off like 3 years to work on my own projects. It was more difficult than I expected to find a job without any connections. Took about 3 months after moving here. I think there's at least some bias against people who have taken time off because they appear comfortable not having a job and therefore the company has less leverage over them.
frik 10y ago
In late 2015 there was a lot of fear about a dot com like bubble burst. I read and hear little about it these days. Might be a good sign.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

steven777400 10y ago

Right now we have about a half dozen open developer positions that we are so far unable to fill. The problem is the vicious intersection of relatively dull work and relatively low pay. We've had to increasingly go the route of hiring contractors since we can pay them basically anything, whereas actual employee pay is set by the legislature who don't win points with voters when they spend more on state employee salaries... So, if there was a legitimate tech job shortage, it would be trickling down to more applicants coming to us (which has happened in the past). Right now, I'm not seeing it.

spraak 10y ago
Do you mean you work for the government somehow?
- steven777400 10y ago
  Yes, an employee of Washington State. The state government is divided into agencies, who can approach hiring differently (some almost exclusively use contractors, other try to use exclusively employees). Contractor pay is negotiated by each agency with the contracting firm; but employee pay is set all the way from the top (the state legislature). So, for example, if I say "I can't hire anyone that meets your 'expert' qualifications for $65K/year", there's nothing my supervisor, or his supervisor, or the CIO, or the agency director, or even the governor can do; other than recommend we switch to using contractors which has its own downsides. There's been an increasing push that has been heard for IT salaries to be "re-evaluated", but it's suffering from politics and all the usual high-level government malaise. It'll be at least 2-3 more years before anything happens, and there's a 50/50 chance that the outcome is "we should pay you more, but we won't." That's the same excuse they've used for not giving "cost of living" increases most years. :)
  - toomuchtodo 10y ago
    > but employee pay is set all the way from the top (the state legislature). Can't fix that broken of a compensation model without significant work (having intelligent representatives run for office).
    - steven777400 10y ago
      When I mentioned the problem to one of the state HR folks working on the compensation thing for IT, she said, "Ask not what your state can do for you, but what you can do for your state." Which is a fine sentiment, but doesn't help me actually fill positions with people who won't be a net negative to the team.
      - eikenberry 10y ago
        Have you thought about hiring people for those positions as full time but actually only working them part time? You could probably find good people who don't want to work normal full time jobs but would like the benefits that usually only come with full time employment.
lukewrites 10y ago
I'm looking for a junior dev position. Does the state hire many junior people?
- steven777400 10y ago
  Some agencies more than others. I've recommended we move to hiring "in-training" positions to enable us to pick up sharp junior devs andd give them rapid advancement (within the very limiting structure we have, of course). Some agencies hire exclusively junior devs and leave all the higher level architecture, etc, to contractors. Our agency tries to hire almost exclusively senior devs, and has a real hard time of it. Getting junior devs is easier. If you're interesting, go to careers.wa.gov and do some searchers. It will show all agencies and you can see salaries and requirements. Entry level developer position is generally ITS 3; ignore the "2 years experience" or whatever. We routinely hire ITS 3 positions with no formal experience, just with either some schoolwork or "learned on my own" programming, or both.
  - lukewrites 10y ago
    Thanks, I'll check out the website.
  - spiffyman 10y ago
    Or create your own junior devs and turn them into mid-levels in a couple years. Take a look at the University of Texas's Software Developer Training Program[1]. They have similar problems with respect to hiring, with the additional problem that there is a lot of legacy code in proprietary technologies to maintain. So as a solution they began hiring for aptitude, not knowledge, and putting their trainees through this ~6-month program. The net result is specially tailored devs who know their systems pretty well. They have a strong community of developers who all have a certain background in common. There's a tacit understanding that trainees will stay on long enough to make the University's investment "worth it," but I don't think that's much of a problem. I think most trainees are "grateful," so even though they don't necessarily make what they would in the private sector, they stick around. I went through this program and ended up working there for three years. Have recommended others go through it as well when they began pursuing careers in tech. Can't speak of it highly enough. [1]: https://www.utexas.edu/its/analyst-training/ https://www.utexas.edu/its/analyst-training/
MollyR 10y ago
I have a few friends, who can't seem to find any developers on the east coast too.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

jakebasile 10y ago

I can tell you from my own experience that the "negative unemployment rate" comment is false. I have been unemployed since March, and I've had no less than 12 in-person interviews, some out of state, and countless other contacts all resulting in rejections. These were positions I am qualified for, and that I know I would have succeeded at. I've been told it would take me 6 months to start contributing to a Python codebase even though I have significant experience in the language and the problem domain for that project. I've been told I have too little experience mentoring a team despite doing just that at my last job. I've been told I don't have enough JS experience for a position that did not ask for any JS experience. The market right now is poor for a developer without a fancy CS degree, or one without the luck of a golden pedigree from a previous high profile company.

gherkin0 10y ago
There's also a bias against the currently unemployed. It took 6 months of hard work for a friend of mine to find a job after he quit one after 3 months without anything lined up, because it was such a bad fit that it was making him depressed. Up to that point, he had zero problems finding a job, the only difference was his employment status while job hunting.
- jakebasile 10y ago
  Yes, I think that has contributed to it as well. In retrospect I should have started lining up interviews when I saw the company might fold, but I had never had any issue finding employment in the past so I didn't prioritize it over trying to right the ship.
- 1138 10y ago
  2 years ago I moved to SF from a shithole city. I had taken off like 3 years to work on my own projects. It was more difficult than I expected to find a job without any connections. Took about 3 months after moving here. I think there's at least some bias against people who have taken time off because they appear comfortable not having a job and therefore the company has less leverage over them.

frik 10y ago

In late 2015 there was a lot of fear about a dot com like bubble burst. I read and hear little about it these days. Might be a good sign.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]