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I fully support anti-poaching measures, but what this article doesn't discuss is the effect of a total ban on trade of existing ivory products. Old musical inst
by zbjornson 10y ago
I fully support anti-poaching measures, but what this article doesn't discuss is the effect of a total ban on trade of existing ivory products. Old musical instruments (pipe organs, old pianos, some wind instruments) with any ivory in them (e.g. decorative inlays or the key slips on a 1000+ kg organ) cannot have their ivory parts repaired and the instrument cannot be sold under a complete trade ban, which is a shame and a waste. This came up with the US Forestry and Wildlife Service recently when they also proposed a complete ban. There are a handful of folks who recover ivory from art/antiques exactly for restoring other products without resulting in new poaching.
Edit: see this article, which was just updated today, about the effect of ivory bans on musicians and instruments http://americanorchestras.org/advocacy-government/travel-with-instruments/endangered-species-material/ivory-ban-impact-on-orchestras.html http://americanorchestras.org/advocacy-government/travel-wit...
- uptown 10y agoThey can be repaired. They just cannot be repaired with ivory.
- ticviking 10y agomeaning they cannot be restored
- zymhan 10y agoWell, okay, that's a trade off we as a society have decided to make. Many orphaned elephants send their condolences for your piano.
- kafkaesq 10y agoMeaning we have to choose our priorities. As if there's any contest, in this case.
- wavefunction 10y agoit does mean that, yes.
- qbrass 10y agoIt means the restoration costs more, and if anyone asks, the ivory didn't need to be restored.
- phowat 10y agoSure, let's not avoid killing thousands of endangered animals so people can keep restoring old pianos. Priorities, right ?
- zbjornson 10y agoNo, my point is that you can both stop poaching and preserve antiques, but not with a blind, total ban on trade.
- phowat 10y agoFrom the article: "However, experts believe that there is currently no way to prevent poached ivory from entering legal chains and then finding a way on to the world market." So no, it seems that you can't do both.
- adamnemecek 10y agoHow? Where would this ivory come from? Why is it important for the pianos to have ivory inlays?
- zbjornson 10y agoLast line of my first comment: a few people around the world recover ivory from other products for use in restoration. The restoration issue aside, banning resale of a 100+ year old instrument because it contains ivory doesn't help the elephants today.
- adamnemecek 10y ago> a few people around the world recover ivory from other products for use in restoration How do you know where they source their ivory from? > The restoration issue aside, banning resale of a 100+ year old instrument because it contains ivory doesn't help the elephants today. Of course it does. It adds stigma to using ivory.
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- sedachv 10y ago> I fully support anti-poaching measures, but what this article doesn't discuss is the effect of a total ban on trade of existing ivory products. Old musical instruments (pipe organs, old pianos, some wind instruments) with any ivory in them (e.g. decorative inlays or the key slips on a 1000+ kg organ) cannot have their ivory parts repaired and the instrument cannot be sold under a complete trade ban, which is a shame and a waste. As others pointed out there is no reliable way to trace the supply chain of ivory (not that sellers would also have a huge incentive for fraud) to ensure poached ivory cannot enter the market. So this "think of the restorers!" trope is actually a great argument for confiscating and destroying all existing ivory products and stockpiles. The market for ivory needs to be entirely eliminated for poaching to cease to be an attractive economic activity.