3 ms·

They are A THREAT but not an IMMINENT one.

by eximius 10y ago

ncallaway 10y ago
He was armed, had shot officers in the immediately recent past and had threatened to do so again in the future. By absolutely every legal definition of imminent threat this person was one. Every active shooter is an imminent threat. If this goes in front of a judge it will be ruled that he was an imminent threat. There's really 0 question about that. I say this as someone who feels strongly that lethal force is used far too often, and that there is a massive racial disparity in that use of force.
- LeifCarrotson 10y ago
  Imminent: likely to occur at any moment; impending; ready to take place. Active: producing or involving movement; being in physical motion. These terms only refer to the present and future, not the past. They do not apply to the cornered suspect.
  - ncallaway 10y ago
    Sorry, these words have a specific meaning in a legal context. http://recoverymodel.com/id14.html http://recoverymodel.com/id14.html > An imminent danger is an anticipated danger that is likely to happen, is impending, and is separated by space or time. This impending danger could be one hour, one day, or an unknown time away but is still imminent. https://www.osha.gov/as/opa/worker/danger.html https://www.osha.gov/as/opa/worker/danger.html [Imminent Danger is defined here, but Imminent is used in a similar context to Imminent Threat] > any conditions or practices in any place of employment which are such that a danger exists which could reasonably be expected to cause death or serious physical harm immediately or before the imminence of such danger can be eliminated through the enforcement procedures http://thelawdictionary.org/imminent-danger/ http://thelawdictionary.org/imminent-danger/ > In relation to homicide in self-defense, this term means immediate danger, such as must be Instantly met, such as cannot be guarded against It calling for the assistance of others or the protection of the law. The shooter had a firearm, had used it, and had communicated an intent to use it again in the near-future. If any police officer had walked into the shooters line of fire it would be reasonable to assume that they would be shot. Thus, it is a _textbook_ definition of imminent threat. I know that the legal context often uses English words in manners that are very similar to English, but do not share the precise definition. Right now, you are mistakenly using the English definitions in a legal context. You need to use the legal definition. And if you put this in front of a judge they will tell you that this is a clear-cut example of an imminent threat.
  - mcphage 10y ago
    > They do not apply to the cornered suspect. He (or he + accomplices) already killed 5 people, and injured what, 7 more? And he was still armed. I'm not sure how you could argue that (a) he definitely wouldn't have killed more, and (b) the officers on location should have been certain enough about that fact to make it worth risking more lives.
    - mikeash 10y ago
      They apparently thought it was certain enough to negotiate with him for several hours before blowing him up.
- Houshalter 10y ago
  They had him surrounded. He was no danger to anyone. It's not like he died in the confusion of a shootout or something. They took their time to plan it, set up the bomb robot and a bomb, slowly drive it up to him and detonate. That's an execution. Honestly I'm glad the guy is dead, and it's easy to let emotions of this influence opinions. But I'm scared for the precedent this sets. In the future, when a suspect is cornered and would normally try to be talked down by police, they'll just send in a bomb robot and blow him up. Maybe he won't even be armed, but the police don't know that. So he's an "imminent threat" and can legally be executed.

They are A THREAT but not an IMMINENT one.

by eximius 10y ago

They are A THREAT but not an IMMINENT one.

He was armed, had shot officers in the immediately recent past and had threatened to do so again in the future. By absolutely every legal definition of imminent threat this person was one. Every active shooter is an imminent threat. If this goes in front of a judge it will be ruled that he was an imminent threat. There's really 0 question about that. I say this as someone who feels strongly that lethal force is used far too often, and that there is a massive racial disparity in that use of force.

LeifCarrotson 10y ago
Imminent: likely to occur at any moment; impending; ready to take place. Active: producing or involving movement; being in physical motion. These terms only refer to the present and future, not the past. They do not apply to the cornered suspect.
- ncallaway 10y ago
  Sorry, these words have a specific meaning in a legal context. http://recoverymodel.com/id14.html http://recoverymodel.com/id14.html > An imminent danger is an anticipated danger that is likely to happen, is impending, and is separated by space or time. This impending danger could be one hour, one day, or an unknown time away but is still imminent. https://www.osha.gov/as/opa/worker/danger.html https://www.osha.gov/as/opa/worker/danger.html [Imminent Danger is defined here, but Imminent is used in a similar context to Imminent Threat] > any conditions or practices in any place of employment which are such that a danger exists which could reasonably be expected to cause death or serious physical harm immediately or before the imminence of such danger can be eliminated through the enforcement procedures http://thelawdictionary.org/imminent-danger/ http://thelawdictionary.org/imminent-danger/ > In relation to homicide in self-defense, this term means immediate danger, such as must be Instantly met, such as cannot be guarded against It calling for the assistance of others or the protection of the law. The shooter had a firearm, had used it, and had communicated an intent to use it again in the near-future. If any police officer had walked into the shooters line of fire it would be reasonable to assume that they would be shot. Thus, it is a _textbook_ definition of imminent threat. I know that the legal context often uses English words in manners that are very similar to English, but do not share the precise definition. Right now, you are mistakenly using the English definitions in a legal context. You need to use the legal definition. And if you put this in front of a judge they will tell you that this is a clear-cut example of an imminent threat.
- mcphage 10y ago
  > They do not apply to the cornered suspect. He (or he + accomplices) already killed 5 people, and injured what, 7 more? And he was still armed. I'm not sure how you could argue that (a) he definitely wouldn't have killed more, and (b) the officers on location should have been certain enough about that fact to make it worth risking more lives.
  - mikeash 10y ago
    They apparently thought it was certain enough to negotiate with him for several hours before blowing him up.
Houshalter 10y ago
They had him surrounded. He was no danger to anyone. It's not like he died in the confusion of a shootout or something. They took their time to plan it, set up the bomb robot and a bomb, slowly drive it up to him and detonate. That's an execution. Honestly I'm glad the guy is dead, and it's easy to let emotions of this influence opinions. But I'm scared for the precedent this sets. In the future, when a suspect is cornered and would normally try to be talked down by police, they'll just send in a bomb robot and blow him up. Maybe he won't even be armed, but the police don't know that. So he's an "imminent threat" and can legally be executed.