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Like everyone else I don't have any details on this beyond what's been reported. But I for one think this -may- have been a great decision to end the standoff w

by breck 10y ago

Like everyone else I don't have any details on this beyond what's been reported. But I for one think this -may- have been a great decision to end the standoff without risking the lives of any more officers. For those that are saying "there was no imminent threat", that is incorrect. One relevant data point, see the 2009 standoff in Oakland, where 2 SWAT officers died when they moved in on a cornered suspect (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_shootings_of_Oakland_police_officers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_shootings_of_Oakland_poli...). This seems to me like a good application of technology in this extremely rare type of situation.

mikeash 10y ago
The SWAT team had to move in on that suspect because the police felt the suspect was a threat to the lives of other people in the building, so they couldn't wait him out. That doesn't seem to have been the case here, since the suspect was in a parking garage.
poof131 10y ago
I agree. While using a lethal robot is scary, it is really no different than giving a police sniper the okay for a shot. Except in this case there was no possibility of a sniper shot. This individual was likely well trained. He fires and maneuvers. He has a good stance and chooses targets. He is clearly an accurate shot. He is aggressive and circles his target. He is calm under fire. [1] His skill level is damn scary and likely superior to many of the police he was up against. Makes me think of the Special Ops guys I worked with in Iraq. If he escaped somehow from the garage, he could have killed could more. While this robot technique is a bit scary, if I was responsible for stopping him, I would probably have done the same thing. No way you can charge in to stop him. Not only is he well armed, he may have a bomb. You don’t rush entrenched people with assault rifles, it’s not Call of Duty. You use grenades, explosives, air-strikes, etc. Perhaps a non-lethal option could be developed. This would be ideal. But this robot bomb may have been improvised on the spot by the police to deal with this incident. Without a non-lethal robot to shoot a tranquilizer, release gas, or stun the suspect, I see no other way to stop him. [1] https://streamable.com/pgpb https://streamable.com/pgpb
- haslhuny 10y ago
  The point is that the police could have waited. They proactively murdered this man for no reason at that point in the situation. If this individual was white, Hispanic or even Muslim... they would have waited.
  - poof131 10y ago
    They could have waited for him to escape through the ventilation systems and kill more people? They could have waited for him to detonate the entire building and bring it down on everybody’s head, with more police inside and media watching? Either are possibilities they could have waited for and everyone would be second guessing those scenarios just like people are second guessing this one now. I don’t like the idea of robot bombs killing people, but when someone is shooting at police and not negotiating, I do support them taking out the threat and wouldn’t call it murder. Self-defense or defending innocents are probably better terms. And your statement that they would have waited if he was a different race is ridiculous. So you know better what would have happened than the african american chief of the Dallas police? You’re not helping the situation in this country by making these uninformed statements.
    - someguydave 10y ago
      There is a point when you present such a threat to public safety that a military solution is required. Hardened criminals who are obviously on a murder spree have given up their right to due process. If he had peacefully surrendered he would have had a trial and his due process (and hopefully hanged for his crimes).
robwilliams 10y ago
With all his talk about planting bombs, I'm sure they suspected that he was wearing a bomb vest to detonate when police moved in. I'm not sure how else they could have handled it.

by breck 10y ago

mikeash 10y ago

The SWAT team had to move in on that suspect because the police felt the suspect was a threat to the lives of other people in the building, so they couldn't wait him out. That doesn't seem to have been the case here, since the suspect was in a parking garage.

poof131 10y ago

I agree. While using a lethal robot is scary, it is really no different than giving a police sniper the okay for a shot. Except in this case there was no possibility of a sniper shot. This individual was likely well trained. He fires and maneuvers. He has a good stance and chooses targets. He is clearly an accurate shot. He is aggressive and circles his target. He is calm under fire. [1] His skill level is damn scary and likely superior to many of the police he was up against. Makes me think of the Special Ops guys I worked with in Iraq. If he escaped somehow from the garage, he could have killed could more. While this robot technique is a bit scary, if I was responsible for stopping him, I would probably have done the same thing. No way you can charge in to stop him. Not only is he well armed, he may have a bomb. You don’t rush entrenched people with assault rifles, it’s not Call of Duty. You use grenades, explosives, air-strikes, etc. Perhaps a non-lethal option could be developed. This would be ideal. But this robot bomb may have been improvised on the spot by the police to deal with this incident. Without a non-lethal robot to shoot a tranquilizer, release gas, or stun the suspect, I see no other way to stop him. [1] https://streamable.com/pgpb https://streamable.com/pgpb

haslhuny 10y ago
The point is that the police could have waited. They proactively murdered this man for no reason at that point in the situation. If this individual was white, Hispanic or even Muslim... they would have waited.
- poof131 10y ago
  They could have waited for him to escape through the ventilation systems and kill more people? They could have waited for him to detonate the entire building and bring it down on everybody’s head, with more police inside and media watching? Either are possibilities they could have waited for and everyone would be second guessing those scenarios just like people are second guessing this one now. I don’t like the idea of robot bombs killing people, but when someone is shooting at police and not negotiating, I do support them taking out the threat and wouldn’t call it murder. Self-defense or defending innocents are probably better terms. And your statement that they would have waited if he was a different race is ridiculous. So you know better what would have happened than the african american chief of the Dallas police? You’re not helping the situation in this country by making these uninformed statements.
  - someguydave 10y ago
    There is a point when you present such a threat to public safety that a military solution is required. Hardened criminals who are obviously on a murder spree have given up their right to due process. If he had peacefully surrendered he would have had a trial and his due process (and hopefully hanged for his crimes).

robwilliams 10y ago

With all his talk about planting bombs, I'm sure they suspected that he was wearing a bomb vest to detonate when police moved in. I'm not sure how else they could have handled it.