5 ms·

> I assume that police officers don't go into an encounter intending to shoot someone so it's important to get at the root cause. I don't. Most of the cops I

> I assume that police officers don't go into an encounter intending to shoot someone so it's important to get at the root cause. I don't. Most of the cops I know were bullies in high school. They enjoy violence and commanding physical authority over other people. The ability to carry and potentially use a gun is a big draw of the profession for them. Police violence won't be fixed until we stop giving thugs a badge and gun.

explorigin 10y ago
All the police officers I know are nice, level-headed guys, but that speaks more about my friends than it does police officers. That said, I talked to a psychiatrist about a relative in the service. She has a term "shiny-shoe syndrome" where people with personality disorders gravitate toward jobs that give them power over others. What were missing is a good psych eval as a requirement for a badge.
- jiiam 10y ago
  I'm not familiar with the US system, so I have to ask: are you saying that nowhere during his training a cop is evaluated by a psychiatrist before receiving his badge?
  - gnoway 10y ago
    I don't know if it's universal, but it's at least extremely common for there to be a psych eval prior to receiving a badge. Not sure why the parent thinks otherwise.
    - explorigin 10y ago
      The operative word there is _good_. Remember that we're talking about multiple systems that are run differently all across the country. Some systems are better than others. It's not a one-size fits all comparison.
  - pc86 10y ago
    I've served on multiple commissions whose sole purpose was to interview police applicants (and serve on one currently). In every instance there was an in depth background check including interviews (former significant others, neighbors, teachers, etc), financial background check and credit reports, and a psychological evaluation. At many instances the candidate could be removed from the process. The flip side is that it's Civil Service, meaning everything is scored and at the end of the day the hireable pool of applicants is typically 2-5 vetted and certified applicants for a given position, so the official hiring body (typically the township supervisors or council) has very little decision-making power. In my state they're legally required to hire one of the top 3. If a veteran is #1, the hiring body must hire them unless they can find a disqualifying feature in the interview. These requirements vary a lot by state, this is just my anecdotal experience. Even in the smallest local police forces - the smallest I worked with was 8 officers, mostly part-time, in a borough of ~1,000 households - it would be unheard of not to get some sort of psychiatric or psychological opinion on the candidate.
  - messick 10y ago
    Different departments have different standards. The LAPD has hired some pretty famously dangerous assholes in it's day, so they have become pretty picky. A dude from my high school, whose father was a SWAT lieutenant, tried to join but was denied. They had interviewed a bunch of his friends, and during the interview he was asked "why do you yell at your girlfriend so much?" A smaller department, lets say Bakersfield PD, might not be so picky.
- dsr_ 10y ago
  But in the meantime, I'm perfectly good with requiring police officers to have their guns locked in their cars until they can justify taking them out. Will it lead to a small increase in the number of shot police officers? Probably. I would rather have that than the current situation.
  - eeeeeeeeeeeee 10y ago
    Something tells me you would be answering differently if you had someone close to you that was a police officer.
    - jonlucc 10y ago
      I'm not the parent commenter, but I agree with them. The truth is that the number of officers killed in the line of duty this year is below 60 (the source hadn't updated since last night) and many of those are accidents, not malicious.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - dsr_ 10y ago
      My reasonably-well-liked cousin, and his wife. A few friends. So, no, you're wrong.
  - vivekd 10y ago
    I would imagine that guns are for those immediately life threatening emergency situations where there really is no other option. If an officer could make it back to his car, grab his gun, bring it back again and face the suspect, my guess is that would not qualify as the sort of immediately life threatening circumstance that warranted the use of deadly force
- Cthulhu_ 10y ago
  OTOH, police officers in the US need some personality traits; assertiveness, courage, and the ability to defend themselves with force in case of a gun being drawn on them - which happens regularly.
  - quesera 10y ago
    > in case of a gun being drawn on them - which happens regularly. I don't believe this is true.
  - lowtolerance 10y ago
    It does not happen anywhere close to regularly.
- superuser2 10y ago
  There is way too much variation in the size, wealth, environment, political priorities, etc. of police departments to believe it is useful to make generalizations about police culture without identifying the department you're talking about. Even precincts vary wildly.
- vivekd 10y ago
  It changes widely by district I find. For example in Toronto, out police are relatively professional, level-headed and nice. But just step over east a few km to Simcoe County and suddenly the cops there start acting like power mad tyrants I imagine it depends alot on how the upper management enforces discipline and the attitudes they pass down to subordinate officers
darkerside 10y ago
Exactly how many police officers do you know?
kelukelugames 10y ago
There is a giant difference between bullying and shooting. Furthermore, the consistently true cop stereotype is they hate paperwork.
- kelukelugames 10y ago
 test hiasdfasdfa
soundwave106 10y ago
In my opinion you're viewing this from the opposite angle (bottom-up versus top-down). To me, much of the root cause (it's not just black males per se; think of all the dogs shot mostly unnecessarily by police for instance -- https://puppycidedb.com/ https://puppycidedb.com/) is the over-aggressive militarization of the American police force. Which occurred for many reasons, but primarily was due to various moral panics such as the "war on drugs", and the need of our oversized military industry to dispose of excess military equipment. (See Balko's book on this: https://www.amazon.com/Rise-Warrior-Cop-Militarization-Americas/dp/1610394577 https://www.amazon.com/Rise-Warrior-Cop-Militarization-Ameri...) Ultimately, the problem I can see with such policies is that the "war" paradigms too many police departments are obsessed with divide people between The Good Guys and The Enemy. The police force should be about community first (protect and serve etc.). But when the motif is more Good Guys vs. The Enemy, this probably does allow things like racial bias to play an oversized role. And when the motif is more War War War, it probably encourages hair-trigger responses. In my opinion, American police violence (and we do IMHO have the most over-aggressive culture of any rich world nation I've seen) won't be fixed until this attitude changes. This is less a police officer issue (officers can be trained to any culture) and more of the type of culture encouraged at a legislative level.
- morgante 10y ago
  I think they're two sides of the same coin. An overly aggressive and militarized culture will tend to attract those with a penchant for violence and an excess of testosterone, while those with thug-like attitudes will tend to create an aggressive culture and to advocate for more military equipment/training.

explorigin 10y ago

All the police officers I know are nice, level-headed guys, but that speaks more about my friends than it does police officers. That said, I talked to a psychiatrist about a relative in the service. She has a term "shiny-shoe syndrome" where people with personality disorders gravitate toward jobs that give them power over others. What were missing is a good psych eval as a requirement for a badge.

jiiam 10y ago
I'm not familiar with the US system, so I have to ask: are you saying that nowhere during his training a cop is evaluated by a psychiatrist before receiving his badge?
- gnoway 10y ago
  I don't know if it's universal, but it's at least extremely common for there to be a psych eval prior to receiving a badge. Not sure why the parent thinks otherwise.
  - explorigin 10y ago
    The operative word there is _good_. Remember that we're talking about multiple systems that are run differently all across the country. Some systems are better than others. It's not a one-size fits all comparison.
- pc86 10y ago
  I've served on multiple commissions whose sole purpose was to interview police applicants (and serve on one currently). In every instance there was an in depth background check including interviews (former significant others, neighbors, teachers, etc), financial background check and credit reports, and a psychological evaluation. At many instances the candidate could be removed from the process. The flip side is that it's Civil Service, meaning everything is scored and at the end of the day the hireable pool of applicants is typically 2-5 vetted and certified applicants for a given position, so the official hiring body (typically the township supervisors or council) has very little decision-making power. In my state they're legally required to hire one of the top 3. If a veteran is #1, the hiring body must hire them unless they can find a disqualifying feature in the interview. These requirements vary a lot by state, this is just my anecdotal experience. Even in the smallest local police forces - the smallest I worked with was 8 officers, mostly part-time, in a borough of ~1,000 households - it would be unheard of not to get some sort of psychiatric or psychological opinion on the candidate.
- messick 10y ago
  Different departments have different standards. The LAPD has hired some pretty famously dangerous assholes in it's day, so they have become pretty picky. A dude from my high school, whose father was a SWAT lieutenant, tried to join but was denied. They had interviewed a bunch of his friends, and during the interview he was asked "why do you yell at your girlfriend so much?" A smaller department, lets say Bakersfield PD, might not be so picky.
dsr_ 10y ago
But in the meantime, I'm perfectly good with requiring police officers to have their guns locked in their cars until they can justify taking them out. Will it lead to a small increase in the number of shot police officers? Probably. I would rather have that than the current situation.
- eeeeeeeeeeeee 10y ago
  Something tells me you would be answering differently if you had someone close to you that was a police officer.
  - jonlucc 10y ago
    I'm not the parent commenter, but I agree with them. The truth is that the number of officers killed in the line of duty this year is below 60 (the source hadn't updated since last night) and many of those are accidents, not malicious.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - dsr_ 10y ago
    My reasonably-well-liked cousin, and his wife. A few friends. So, no, you're wrong.
- vivekd 10y ago
  I would imagine that guns are for those immediately life threatening emergency situations where there really is no other option. If an officer could make it back to his car, grab his gun, bring it back again and face the suspect, my guess is that would not qualify as the sort of immediately life threatening circumstance that warranted the use of deadly force
Cthulhu_ 10y ago
OTOH, police officers in the US need some personality traits; assertiveness, courage, and the ability to defend themselves with force in case of a gun being drawn on them - which happens regularly.
- quesera 10y ago
  > in case of a gun being drawn on them - which happens regularly. I don't believe this is true.
- lowtolerance 10y ago
  It does not happen anywhere close to regularly.
superuser2 10y ago
There is way too much variation in the size, wealth, environment, political priorities, etc. of police departments to believe it is useful to make generalizations about police culture without identifying the department you're talking about. Even precincts vary wildly.
vivekd 10y ago
It changes widely by district I find. For example in Toronto, out police are relatively professional, level-headed and nice. But just step over east a few km to Simcoe County and suddenly the cops there start acting like power mad tyrants I imagine it depends alot on how the upper management enforces discipline and the attitudes they pass down to subordinate officers

darkerside 10y ago

Exactly how many police officers do you know?

kelukelugames 10y ago

There is a giant difference between bullying and shooting. Furthermore, the consistently true cop stereotype is they hate paperwork.

kelukelugames 10y ago
test hiasdfasdfa

soundwave106 10y ago

In my opinion you're viewing this from the opposite angle (bottom-up versus top-down). To me, much of the root cause (it's not just black males per se; think of all the dogs shot mostly unnecessarily by police for instance -- https://puppycidedb.com/ https://puppycidedb.com/) is the over-aggressive militarization of the American police force. Which occurred for many reasons, but primarily was due to various moral panics such as the "war on drugs", and the need of our oversized military industry to dispose of excess military equipment. (See Balko's book on this: https://www.amazon.com/Rise-Warrior-Cop-Militarization-Americas/dp/1610394577 https://www.amazon.com/Rise-Warrior-Cop-Militarization-Ameri...) Ultimately, the problem I can see with such policies is that the "war" paradigms too many police departments are obsessed with divide people between The Good Guys and The Enemy. The police force should be about community first (protect and serve etc.). But when the motif is more Good Guys vs. The Enemy, this probably does allow things like racial bias to play an oversized role. And when the motif is more War War War, it probably encourages hair-trigger responses. In my opinion, American police violence (and we do IMHO have the most over-aggressive culture of any rich world nation I've seen) won't be fixed until this attitude changes. This is less a police officer issue (officers can be trained to any culture) and more of the type of culture encouraged at a legislative level.

morgante 10y ago
I think they're two sides of the same coin. An overly aggressive and militarized culture will tend to attract those with a penchant for violence and an excess of testosterone, while those with thug-like attitudes will tend to create an aggressive culture and to advocate for more military equipment/training.