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You sure? The two autopilot deaths say otherwise. There has and will always be risk in starting a company. Your products might have flaws and they might kill. S

by electic 10y ago

You sure? The two autopilot deaths say otherwise. There has and will always be risk in starting a company. Your products might have flaws and they might kill. Some companies make it through these events...some don't. Innovation is embracing a crazy idea to move humanity forward. However, it also means embracing all the unknowns.

keymone 10y ago
two autopilot deaths? afaik autopilot failed to react properly to already dangerous situation where it is in no way certain that human would have succeeded. do you know of an event where autopilot deliberately chose to drive into a tree and killed the passengers?
- Ralfp 10y ago
  On sidenote it's shame that media (and internet hate crowd) is spinning what happened into proof that Tesla's autopilot is dangerous for you and those dear to you and was constructed to kill you on first opportunity.
- ceejayoz 10y ago
  > do you know of an event where autopilot deliberately chose to drive into a tree and killed the passengers? There are videos of the Autopilot feature attempting to swerve into oncoming traffic. It does have the potential to kill people, it likely will in wide usage just by raw statistics, and it's likely to eventually fall under regulation of some sort. That doesn't mean it's necessarily a bad feature, but pushing self-driving car functionality as a "beta" to the public is, by at least some definitions and to some extent, "Elon Musk playing with people's lives".
  - keymone 10y ago
    people swerve all the time because coffee and phones falling out of their hands, because their "cpu" is bug-ridden and decides to show them fiction instead of reality at will. so the connotation that goes with the phrase "playing with people's lives" is completely dishonest when faced with the fact that statistically autopilot is safer than human.
    - ceejayoz 10y ago
      > statistically autopilot is safer than human This is not born out by the currently available facts. Tesla quoted deaths-per-autopilot-mile versus overall deaths-per-mile for all cars on the road. This is very misleading information, for a number of reasons. 1. Teslas are high-end luxury cars and thus have better safety features than the lower end of the market. 2. Teslas are likely to be newer and better maintained than the average car on the road. The average age of a car on the road is 11.4 years (https://www.google.com/search?q=average+age+of+cars+on+the+road https://www.google.com/search?q=average+age+of+cars+on+the+r...) - there are ZERO Tesla cars that old. 3. Autopilot is disabled on residential streets and those with no center divider (http://www.newsmax.com/TheWire/tesla-autopilot-videos-restricted/2016/01/11/id/709006/ http://www.newsmax.com/TheWire/tesla-autopilot-videos-restri...), which means it's driving in more predictable situations than average. You're also unlikely to have it on when there are things like icy/snowy conditions. 4. Autopilot will hand over control when it can't handle something. If it does this suddenly, the subsequent crash may not count in Musk's "autopilot miles" statistic.
      - mikeash 10y ago
        Autopilot doesn't just give up when it can't handle something. It sounds an urgent alarm telling the driver to take over, and if the driver doesn't, it stops the car and turns on the hazard lights. Most drivers will take over and disengage Autopilot in doing so, so your point remains, but I wanted to make it clear that the car isn't just doing a "Jesus^H^H^H^H^HDriver take the wheel!" thing.
        ceejayoz 10y ago
        My resulting question for Musk would be "at what point does a subsequent accident not count in the deaths-per-mile stat?" Is it when the alarm sounds? When it begins to slow? When it turns on the hazards? When it has come to a complete stop? How would being rear-rended during this process be counted?
        mikeash 10y ago
jakub_h 10y ago
What two autopilot deaths? I thought there was only one (courtesy of a formerly certified Darwin Award nominee to boot).
mikeash 10y ago
There have been two highly-publicized Autopilot accidents, recently but only one death. And the second one didn't actually involve Autopilot, that was just the driver either being confused or scammy.
27182818284 10y ago
Their cars were reviewed by agencies and given the highest safety ratings out there. That can't be said for Theranos.
- ceejayoz 10y ago
  I'd note that the safety ratings currently have no ranking that'd be relevant for stuff like autopilot.
- FireBeyond 10y ago
  Actually, they weren't. For a few reasons, Tesla has actually made a "point" of _not_ submitting vehicles for testing, which is why you won't see it here: http://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/TSP-List http://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/TSP-List Per http://www.torquenews.com/1083/why-tesla-s-2014-model-s-cannot-earn-us-top-safety-rating http://www.torquenews.com/1083/why-tesla-s-2014-model-s-cann... - has some interesting comments, too.

by electic 10y ago

keymone 10y ago

two autopilot deaths? afaik autopilot failed to react properly to already dangerous situation where it is in no way certain that human would have succeeded. do you know of an event where autopilot deliberately chose to drive into a tree and killed the passengers?

Ralfp 10y ago
On sidenote it's shame that media (and internet hate crowd) is spinning what happened into proof that Tesla's autopilot is dangerous for you and those dear to you and was constructed to kill you on first opportunity.
ceejayoz 10y ago
> do you know of an event where autopilot deliberately chose to drive into a tree and killed the passengers? There are videos of the Autopilot feature attempting to swerve into oncoming traffic. It does have the potential to kill people, it likely will in wide usage just by raw statistics, and it's likely to eventually fall under regulation of some sort. That doesn't mean it's necessarily a bad feature, but pushing self-driving car functionality as a "beta" to the public is, by at least some definitions and to some extent, "Elon Musk playing with people's lives".
- keymone 10y ago
  people swerve all the time because coffee and phones falling out of their hands, because their "cpu" is bug-ridden and decides to show them fiction instead of reality at will. so the connotation that goes with the phrase "playing with people's lives" is completely dishonest when faced with the fact that statistically autopilot is safer than human.
  - ceejayoz 10y ago
    > statistically autopilot is safer than human This is not born out by the currently available facts. Tesla quoted deaths-per-autopilot-mile versus overall deaths-per-mile for all cars on the road. This is very misleading information, for a number of reasons. 1. Teslas are high-end luxury cars and thus have better safety features than the lower end of the market. 2. Teslas are likely to be newer and better maintained than the average car on the road. The average age of a car on the road is 11.4 years (https://www.google.com/search?q=average+age+of+cars+on+the+road https://www.google.com/search?q=average+age+of+cars+on+the+r...) - there are ZERO Tesla cars that old. 3. Autopilot is disabled on residential streets and those with no center divider (http://www.newsmax.com/TheWire/tesla-autopilot-videos-restricted/2016/01/11/id/709006/ http://www.newsmax.com/TheWire/tesla-autopilot-videos-restri...), which means it's driving in more predictable situations than average. You're also unlikely to have it on when there are things like icy/snowy conditions. 4. Autopilot will hand over control when it can't handle something. If it does this suddenly, the subsequent crash may not count in Musk's "autopilot miles" statistic.
    - mikeash 10y ago
      Autopilot doesn't just give up when it can't handle something. It sounds an urgent alarm telling the driver to take over, and if the driver doesn't, it stops the car and turns on the hazard lights. Most drivers will take over and disengage Autopilot in doing so, so your point remains, but I wanted to make it clear that the car isn't just doing a "Jesus^H^H^H^H^HDriver take the wheel!" thing.
      - ceejayoz 10y ago
        My resulting question for Musk would be "at what point does a subsequent accident not count in the deaths-per-mile stat?" Is it when the alarm sounds? When it begins to slow? When it turns on the hazards? When it has come to a complete stop? How would being rear-rended during this process be counted?
        mikeash 10y ago

jakub_h 10y ago

What two autopilot deaths? I thought there was only one (courtesy of a formerly certified Darwin Award nominee to boot).

mikeash 10y ago

There have been two highly-publicized Autopilot accidents, recently but only one death. And the second one didn't actually involve Autopilot, that was just the driver either being confused or scammy.

27182818284 10y ago

Their cars were reviewed by agencies and given the highest safety ratings out there. That can't be said for Theranos.

ceejayoz 10y ago
I'd note that the safety ratings currently have no ranking that'd be relevant for stuff like autopilot.
FireBeyond 10y ago
Actually, they weren't. For a few reasons, Tesla has actually made a "point" of _not_ submitting vehicles for testing, which is why you won't see it here: http://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/TSP-List http://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/TSP-List Per http://www.torquenews.com/1083/why-tesla-s-2014-model-s-cannot-earn-us-top-safety-rating http://www.torquenews.com/1083/why-tesla-s-2014-model-s-cann... - has some interesting comments, too.