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Well, yes and no, my experience tells me it all depends on the level of control of your body that you have, and training for a particular task. Learning to oll

by lloeki 10y ago

Well, yes and no, my experience tells me it all depends on the level of control of your body that you have, and training for a particular task. Learning to ollie is a typical example of that: there are movements that you have to consciously apply, yet the best way to ollie is to not think about it and just do a ollie, as each movement isolated doesn't mean much and it's only when the whole thing connects together that it works [0]. As Rodney Mullen says [1], you can only be conscious about sub-movements that really don't exist by themselves (only as part of a larger move) and connect together to form (and possibly create) a movement or a trick. It's really hard to describe, because mostly you don't really think about it, you just feel it, but at the same time it's a conscious action on your part, kinda like meditation or doing a kata. [0]: Braille Skateboarding - 5 steps to better ollies: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrOZxOTIv-g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrOZxOTIv-g [1]: Rodney Mullen - Pop a ollie and innovate! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEm-wjPkegE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEm-wjPkegE

corecoder 10y ago
Also: I can't skate, but I used to be able to juggle almost decently. Sure, learning to juggle involves some degree of conscious learning, but really the cerebellum does almost all the work. You look at someone doing a new trick and understand the understandable part, then you keep trying until you can perform the trick decently, and I ensure you that there is absolutely nothing you can explain afterwards that you couldn't before the training (once you get the understandable part).
corecoder 10y ago
You surely can (and in certain circumstances must) consciously control some parts of your movements, but mostly you are aware of the high level goal and the "main" body part movements, but there's simply no way that you can control or even be aware of most of what your muscles do. In a situation as the ones you describe, you may be aware of relatively a lot simultaneous movements and perceptions you adjust for, but you're actually doing at least an order of magnitude more movements and adjustments, maybe two.
gerbilly 10y ago
At first when you are trying to learn a new sensorimotor skill, you have to use directed thought and consciously try and perform the task, typically by breaking it down into separate movements. But at a certain point in this process the skill becomes implicit and you start to 'just do it.' You can continue to improve the skill at this point, but it requires less conscious control. Interestingly, if you try and over-control your movements after having reached the second stage, your performance will usually get worse. [1] Psychologists call the first kind of learning explicit and the second kind implicit learning.

by lloeki 10y ago

corecoder 10y ago

Also: I can't skate, but I used to be able to juggle almost decently. Sure, learning to juggle involves some degree of conscious learning, but really the cerebellum does almost all the work. You look at someone doing a new trick and understand the understandable part, then you keep trying until you can perform the trick decently, and I ensure you that there is absolutely nothing you can explain afterwards that you couldn't before the training (once you get the understandable part).

corecoder 10y ago

You surely can (and in certain circumstances must) consciously control some parts of your movements, but mostly you are aware of the high level goal and the "main" body part movements, but there's simply no way that you can control or even be aware of most of what your muscles do. In a situation as the ones you describe, you may be aware of relatively a lot simultaneous movements and perceptions you adjust for, but you're actually doing at least an order of magnitude more movements and adjustments, maybe two.

gerbilly 10y ago

At first when you are trying to learn a new sensorimotor skill, you have to use directed thought and consciously try and perform the task, typically by breaking it down into separate movements. But at a certain point in this process the skill becomes implicit and you start to 'just do it.' You can continue to improve the skill at this point, but it requires less conscious control. Interestingly, if you try and over-control your movements after having reached the second stage, your performance will usually get worse. [1] Psychologists call the first kind of learning explicit and the second kind implicit learning.