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I find these type of articles fascinating, generally because they advocate a livestyle I literally cannot live. I do a mixture of hardware and software enginee

I find these type of articles fascinating, generally because they advocate a livestyle I literally cannot live. I do a mixture of hardware and software engineering. I have tons of stuff, generally because I need tons of specialized tools. I frankly can't even comprehend, on a personal level, not having lots stuff, because it's crucial to my job and my hobbies (which are very similar to my work). I have widgets or special tools I haven't used in years, that I keep because they, in many cases, would be so expensive or challenging to replace that it would be infeasible, and if I need it, there is no possible alternative. It'd be fascinating to try to see what approach one of these pseudo-spiritual organizational types takes when confronted by someone who has pursuits that actually have real-world dependencies.

WWKong 10y ago
Although this specific program is about literally purging stuff it could maybe lead to some thought exercise: Do I really need all these specialized tools? Why? Is there a simpler solution? Why not? Can I create a simpler solution? Can it be scaled? Would the world benefit from it? Etc.
chongli 10y ago
She's been asked questions like this before during her talks. She says that if you need the item for your job then she would encourage you to find joy in it if you don't already.
- fake-name 10y ago
  I don't have issue with the minimalist sort, and I'm happy some people can so dramatically divorce themselves from the need of things. It's just not for me. I actually admire the passion for minimalism they have, I just can't do it myself.
  - nerdponx 10y ago
    I don't think these ideas are mutually incompatible with your lifestyle. Sounds like these things do, in fact, bring you joy.
inchoa 10y ago
I think it breaks down like almost anything that people take to a near-religious level. My wife and I bought the book and read through it and loved it, but we certainly don't follow all of it. Really we just did it for our clothes and general commodities (kitchen stuff, random shit in the house) and it works great. However, your example perfectly summarizes where you should steer away from "the program". This method doesn't make sense for a good number of things. However, for those issues it does apply for, it is fantastic.
stephengillie 10y ago
Things I don't use once every 365 days get donated or otherwise left behind. It doesn't make sense to have emotions about tools.
- x1798DE 10y ago
  I think my pack rat tendencies come from the fact that I very frequently MacGyver stuff up in a hurry, so a lot of stuff I have I don't use, but having raw materials and tools around is usually handy, even if I don't know how they'll be useful in the future.
munchbunny 10y ago
This is my own interpretation of the point, but then again I've always been a bit spartan about owning stuff both out of not having space for it and an intentional desire to avoid things I don't need. To me there's a deeper point here about not using material possessions as a crutch for finding happiness and purpose, because it's a common crutch and its effects are temporary at best. The same applies to other sources of unnecessary, self-inflicted complexity in your life. Purging material possessions that you don't need seems like a useful conduit to reflect on a particularly common source of unnecessary, self-inflicted complexity. So if you need those tools to pursue your hobbies or career, then great, you should probably have those tools. Then the point applies to you in two questions: 1. How about all of the stuff you might own that isn't about your hardware/software projects? 2. Do you really need all of those gadgets? Perhaps you do, but I'd bet that there's some amount of semi-justifiable redundancy in there because there's an inherent rush of pleasure that comes from acquiring cool gadgets.
anexprogrammer 10y ago
I find them fascinating as they advocate a lifestyle I really don't want to live. I've read 2/3 of one of this lady's two books. I found it full of blinding flashes of the obvious, a few interesting ideas and plenty of ridiculous tales (for instance something very lengthy about being thankful to a screwdriver?) I find a cosiness in a study or office space that's lined with books and stuff - think Sherlock Holmes' study. That's not to say I want the same clutter everywhere in the house. It's interesting people can live minimally as I would probably last a week in a nicely minimal space before it didn't look so any more!
Sukotto 10y ago
You might get more value from the "life simplification" method Bruce Sterling described in this keynote speech from a few years ago. (Starting at approx 32 min) http://video.reboot.dk/video/486788/bruce-sterling-reboot-11 http://video.reboot.dk/video/486788/bruce-sterling-reboot-11 == Starting comments == - Pay most attention to your common everyday objects. That is, anything that takes up your immediate space: on your body; in the room with you. Also those things that take a lot of your time - Buy the best possible common everyday objects you can. Most importantly: -- your bed: you spend a third of your life in it. Consider the per-hour cost -- your chair: stop whining about your wrists and back hurting and buy a really good chair. Again consider the per-hour cost - Ditch anything you haven't used in the last 12 months. eg: wedding china, tuxedo, everything in your storage locker - Only buy real things you really use --------- == How to get rid of stuff == First, note that getting rid of stuff is HARD (but doable). Do NOT start on impulse. Think hard about it and make sure you're morally prepared. Then... for each item in your life ask the following questions: Q1) Is it beautiful? Test: You have it on display. You share its beauty with the people in your life. If yes then keep it, otherwise... Q2) Is it emotionally important? Test: It has a narrative. You share its story with other people. If yes then keep it, otherwise... Q3a) Is it a useful tool, piece of equipment, or appliance? Test: It efficiently performs some useful function. It actually works. It is the best possible tool. (Do not put up with broken or shoddy stuff) Bruce's side comment: There's nothing more materialistic than doing the same job 5 times because your tools are inferior. Q3b) Are you experimenting on it? Test: You methodically work on it and you publish your results. Bruce's side comment: Beware brand-new time-sucking beta-rollout crap. If yes to either then keep it, otherwise... -> 4) It is unworthy of taking your space or time. Virtualize it (take its picture; record the barcode; record any anecdotes about it) then get RID of it. If you ever need it again, get another one from eBay. --------- (recycled from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1767990 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1767990 )
- nextos 10y ago
  I went through a similar process an I ended up prioritizing just 12 items in my life. I bootstrapped a new apartment from scratch, and I ended up with less than 60 items in total, including those 12 key ones. The upside of this is i) all items were carefully chosen for quality. They are a joy to use. ii) Radical simplicity means less costs, less maintenance, less mental burden.
twblalock 10y ago
Kondo isn't a minimalist in the sense that you seem to think. She helps people whose homes are overflowing with stuff they don't even like. If you like your tools, and they fit your lifestyle, and they fit in your home without spilling out of closets and shelves, then you've achieved what she advocates.
- rm445 10y ago
  Some of the things she advocates are quite extreme. Like keeping no more than 30 books.
  - wyldfire 10y ago
    I think if you had a chance to look back on your life and you considered critically how many of your books did you ever re-read or lend someone or actually leverage -- that number would be small. It doesn't seem too extreme to me, but, yes, I own more than 30 books. It's not terribly rational of me to keep as many as I do, though.
    - JoeAltmaier 10y ago
      That's entirely within the arbitrary "brings you joy" rule. I enjoy looking at, thumbing through, and owning thousands of books. Rationality never enters into this 'war of stuff'. Its explicitly an emotional appeal.
    - jandrese 10y ago
      I assume this doesn't include stuff like technical reference books? They may get pulled only once every couple of years, but when you need them you need them.
      - munchbunny 10y ago
        Do you really need those books? There are probably other ways to get that information. Having those books itself is not an issue. I just think it's worth considering whether you are actually rationally attached to those reference books, or whether they represent an emotional attachment to the possession of objects that signal your identity (career, hobbies, and interests). When I look at the reference books on my bookshelf, the honest answer is that I really don't ever look at them, they're just there to tell visitors about me. When I need to look up information, usually I go various websites via Google search.
jasode 10y ago
>I find these type of articles fascinating, ... I frankly can't even comprehend, on a personal level, not having lots stuff, because it's crucial to my job and my hobbies Are you reacting to the title of the article instead of its actual content? It specifically addresses your situation of "having lots of crucial stuff": "She is often mistaken for someone who thinks you shouldn’t own anything, but that’s wrong. Rather, she thinks you can own as much or as little as you like, as long as every possession brings you true joy." She has also reiterated this point when discussing her book/philosophy in interviews (Google Author Talks, etc). So yes, if you're a serious hobby photographer, you may have 20+ fixed focal length lenses. A weekend woodworker my have 100+ different clamps and all sorts of power tools and various gadgets. All that gear is compatible with her decluttering advice. Instead, she's talking about all that other stuff that doesn't bring you joy: clothes you don't wear, the trinkets accumulating in the kitchen's "junk" drawer, the inappropriate wedding gifts that's been taking up space in the top shelf of the closet, etc.
- JoeAltmaier 10y ago
  ...that book on reorganizing your life you never finished.

WWKong 10y ago

Although this specific program is about literally purging stuff it could maybe lead to some thought exercise: Do I really need all these specialized tools? Why? Is there a simpler solution? Why not? Can I create a simpler solution? Can it be scaled? Would the world benefit from it? Etc.

chongli 10y ago

She's been asked questions like this before during her talks. She says that if you need the item for your job then she would encourage you to find joy in it if you don't already.

fake-name 10y ago
I don't have issue with the minimalist sort, and I'm happy some people can so dramatically divorce themselves from the need of things. It's just not for me. I actually admire the passion for minimalism they have, I just can't do it myself.
- nerdponx 10y ago
  I don't think these ideas are mutually incompatible with your lifestyle. Sounds like these things do, in fact, bring you joy.

inchoa 10y ago

I think it breaks down like almost anything that people take to a near-religious level. My wife and I bought the book and read through it and loved it, but we certainly don't follow all of it. Really we just did it for our clothes and general commodities (kitchen stuff, random shit in the house) and it works great. However, your example perfectly summarizes where you should steer away from "the program". This method doesn't make sense for a good number of things. However, for those issues it does apply for, it is fantastic.

stephengillie 10y ago

Things I don't use once every 365 days get donated or otherwise left behind. It doesn't make sense to have emotions about tools.

x1798DE 10y ago
I think my pack rat tendencies come from the fact that I very frequently MacGyver stuff up in a hurry, so a lot of stuff I have I don't use, but having raw materials and tools around is usually handy, even if I don't know how they'll be useful in the future.

munchbunny 10y ago

This is my own interpretation of the point, but then again I've always been a bit spartan about owning stuff both out of not having space for it and an intentional desire to avoid things I don't need. To me there's a deeper point here about not using material possessions as a crutch for finding happiness and purpose, because it's a common crutch and its effects are temporary at best. The same applies to other sources of unnecessary, self-inflicted complexity in your life. Purging material possessions that you don't need seems like a useful conduit to reflect on a particularly common source of unnecessary, self-inflicted complexity. So if you need those tools to pursue your hobbies or career, then great, you should probably have those tools. Then the point applies to you in two questions: 1. How about all of the stuff you might own that isn't about your hardware/software projects? 2. Do you really need all of those gadgets? Perhaps you do, but I'd bet that there's some amount of semi-justifiable redundancy in there because there's an inherent rush of pleasure that comes from acquiring cool gadgets.

anexprogrammer 10y ago

I find them fascinating as they advocate a lifestyle I really don't want to live. I've read 2/3 of one of this lady's two books. I found it full of blinding flashes of the obvious, a few interesting ideas and plenty of ridiculous tales (for instance something very lengthy about being thankful to a screwdriver?) I find a cosiness in a study or office space that's lined with books and stuff - think Sherlock Holmes' study. That's not to say I want the same clutter everywhere in the house. It's interesting people can live minimally as I would probably last a week in a nicely minimal space before it didn't look so any more!

Sukotto 10y ago

You might get more value from the "life simplification" method Bruce Sterling described in this keynote speech from a few years ago. (Starting at approx 32 min) http://video.reboot.dk/video/486788/bruce-sterling-reboot-11 http://video.reboot.dk/video/486788/bruce-sterling-reboot-11 == Starting comments == - Pay most attention to your common everyday objects. That is, anything that takes up your immediate space: on your body; in the room with you. Also those things that take a lot of your time - Buy the best possible common everyday objects you can. Most importantly: -- your bed: you spend a third of your life in it. Consider the per-hour cost -- your chair: stop whining about your wrists and back hurting and buy a really good chair. Again consider the per-hour cost - Ditch anything you haven't used in the last 12 months. eg: wedding china, tuxedo, everything in your storage locker - Only buy real things you really use --------- == How to get rid of stuff == First, note that getting rid of stuff is HARD (but doable). Do NOT start on impulse. Think hard about it and make sure you're morally prepared. Then... for each item in your life ask the following questions: Q1) Is it beautiful? Test: You have it on display. You share its beauty with the people in your life. If yes then keep it, otherwise... Q2) Is it emotionally important? Test: It has a narrative. You share its story with other people. If yes then keep it, otherwise... Q3a) Is it a useful tool, piece of equipment, or appliance? Test: It efficiently performs some useful function. It actually works. It is the best possible tool. (Do not put up with broken or shoddy stuff) Bruce's side comment: There's nothing more materialistic than doing the same job 5 times because your tools are inferior. Q3b) Are you experimenting on it? Test: You methodically work on it and you publish your results. Bruce's side comment: Beware brand-new time-sucking beta-rollout crap. If yes to either then keep it, otherwise... -> 4) It is unworthy of taking your space or time. Virtualize it (take its picture; record the barcode; record any anecdotes about it) then get RID of it. If you ever need it again, get another one from eBay. --------- (recycled from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1767990 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1767990 )

nextos 10y ago
I went through a similar process an I ended up prioritizing just 12 items in my life. I bootstrapped a new apartment from scratch, and I ended up with less than 60 items in total, including those 12 key ones. The upside of this is i) all items were carefully chosen for quality. They are a joy to use. ii) Radical simplicity means less costs, less maintenance, less mental burden.

twblalock 10y ago

Kondo isn't a minimalist in the sense that you seem to think. She helps people whose homes are overflowing with stuff they don't even like. If you like your tools, and they fit your lifestyle, and they fit in your home without spilling out of closets and shelves, then you've achieved what she advocates.

rm445 10y ago
Some of the things she advocates are quite extreme. Like keeping no more than 30 books.
- wyldfire 10y ago
  I think if you had a chance to look back on your life and you considered critically how many of your books did you ever re-read or lend someone or actually leverage -- that number would be small. It doesn't seem too extreme to me, but, yes, I own more than 30 books. It's not terribly rational of me to keep as many as I do, though.
  - JoeAltmaier 10y ago
    That's entirely within the arbitrary "brings you joy" rule. I enjoy looking at, thumbing through, and owning thousands of books. Rationality never enters into this 'war of stuff'. Its explicitly an emotional appeal.
  - jandrese 10y ago
    I assume this doesn't include stuff like technical reference books? They may get pulled only once every couple of years, but when you need them you need them.
    - munchbunny 10y ago
      Do you really need those books? There are probably other ways to get that information. Having those books itself is not an issue. I just think it's worth considering whether you are actually rationally attached to those reference books, or whether they represent an emotional attachment to the possession of objects that signal your identity (career, hobbies, and interests). When I look at the reference books on my bookshelf, the honest answer is that I really don't ever look at them, they're just there to tell visitors about me. When I need to look up information, usually I go various websites via Google search.

jasode 10y ago

>I find these type of articles fascinating, ... I frankly can't even comprehend, on a personal level, not having lots stuff, because it's crucial to my job and my hobbies Are you reacting to the title of the article instead of its actual content? It specifically addresses your situation of "having lots of crucial stuff": "She is often mistaken for someone who thinks you shouldn’t own anything, but that’s wrong. Rather, she thinks you can own as much or as little as you like, as long as every possession brings you true joy." She has also reiterated this point when discussing her book/philosophy in interviews (Google Author Talks, etc). So yes, if you're a serious hobby photographer, you may have 20+ fixed focal length lenses. A weekend woodworker my have 100+ different clamps and all sorts of power tools and various gadgets. All that gear is compatible with her decluttering advice. Instead, she's talking about all that other stuff that doesn't bring you joy: clothes you don't wear, the trinkets accumulating in the kitchen's "junk" drawer, the inappropriate wedding gifts that's been taking up space in the top shelf of the closet, etc.

JoeAltmaier 10y ago
...that book on reorganizing your life you never finished.