5 ms·

German cops are not brutal? If you cause ANY type of disturbance on the street in Berlin, they simply dispatch a massively overwhelming number of riot police to

German cops are not brutal? If you cause ANY type of disturbance on the street in Berlin, they simply dispatch a massively overwhelming number of riot police to come and beat the living crap out of you. I saw numerous riot police deployed in full gear several times per month when I was in Berlin, more every single month than the grand total of all the riot police I have ever seen during several decades in the US -- and always dispatched to what seemed to me like very minor incidents, such as 20 people holding an anti-gentrification protest, peaceably holding signs and chanting. But if they don't have a formal permit (which must be obtained months in advance...) out come the billy clubs. Maybe they use guns less often, but those clubs are not for show. Locals told me with a mix of irritation and pride that the Berlin police are the second-roughest in Europe, after Belfast.

mschuster91 10y ago
Berlin is a failed state. The riot police in Berlin is abused by Interior Minister Henkel as his personal bully crew to provoke left-wing activists, in order to produce riots on the streets, which Henkel can then again use in his election campaign (you can google "Rigaer 94" for more details). I'll be in Berlin on Saturday for the big rally, I'm pretty sure it will be yet another display of police brutality. All in order to fuel a personal election campaign. It's disgusting and a shame to German police. (disclaimer: I'm Bavarian, and have a cop in the family)
- pjlegato 10y ago
  What happens if you hold an anti-gentrification protest on the streets of Munich without having obtained a formal permit in advance? Yes, the use of riot police is exaggerated in Berlin, but comparing it to a "failed state" seems rather absurd. Damascus or Baghdad are doing a whole lot worse. That reminds me of how I'd see people on the subway platform shaking their heads sadly and complaining that "Berlin is such a disaster; public transportation in Berlin has fallen to third world levels" when a train was (rarely) 1 minute late.
  - mschuster91 10y ago
    It's not just the police. - the disaster called BER - failure of basic public services (there are even talks about canceling the upcoming election because the citizens cannot register, due to a combination of gross mismanagement and ancient hardware) - schools are literally falling apart and even urgent repairs cannot be done because of authority issues (who is supposed to pay for what); alone the schools would need 5B € to fix, not to mention the other public buildings - corruption scandals - gentrification - complete disregard for human rights in regard to refugees
    - posterboy 10y ago
      > the disaster called BER BER is basically ready and only held up by zealous scrutiny, while there's no hurry to close Schoenefeld. > failure of basic public services (there are even talks about canceling the upcoming election because the citizens cannot register, due to a combination of gross mismanagement and ancient hardware) Is that because of the increased burden of immigration? > schools are literally falling apart and even urgent repairs cannot be done because of authority issues (who is supposed to pay for what); alone the schools would need 5B € to fix, not to mention the other public buildings It's like, the internet was never invented and teachers in a crowded room are the only source of knowledge. It's also like pupils actually wanted more intensive classes and that fails because ... the buildings are old? However, I guess it's highly unlikely that buildings are going to collapse like the factories in Bangladesh. Sure, there's mold and leakage in older buildings, to the point that whole schools are transfered. There are more schools torn down than are built every year, at least in my end, the east. Berlin is big and growing fast. Berlin is big, it's an infrastructural problem that rivals any other European city. Anyway, the children, some, are just as violent as the police or they'd want to be, at least. The unemployment rate for young people is unusually high, so the problem goes deeper. University funding OTOH is increasing in a downward economy. I'd call observer bias because, same as with BER, the story is milked by the media. - corruption scandals Sure, there is clear evidence for police brutality for example, but on the other hand, the laws are overall lax compared to New York or Bavaria. - gentrification Seems like the fix for lacking school funds, ironically. - complete disregard for human rights in regard to refugees "complete" is completely unfair. OTOH, Me and you dwelling here doesn't directly help starving people in Zimbabwe, either, AFAICS. Your argument of association doesn't solve the question of undue violence in Murdock's case.
- type0 10y ago
  I'm not sure about Berlin but I heard that Bavaria is frequently called Polizei Staat with a lot of policemen in civil clothing on Munich streets, care to comment on how it compares to Berlin?
  - mschuster91 10y ago
    tl;dr: Berlin cops hate left-wing activists with a passion, but ignore "casual law breaking", Munich cops are not very violent but very pedantic otherwise. Berlin is anarchy, police brutality and power abuse at its finest - I'm interested what the result of the Rigaer 94 rally in 20h will be. Munich cops don't engage in open violence, esp. not plain-clothes officers, but they do fuck you over for smoking weed, crossing a red light as pedestrian or riding a bicycle on Marienplatz with no mercy. That is what is meant with "Polizeistaat".
    - pjlegato 10y ago
      > Berlin is anarchy Perhaps you could gain some perspective by traveling in Somalia for a few weeks. Berlin is nowhere close to "anarchy"; this is absurd hyperbole that simply weakens your overall argument.

mschuster91 10y ago

Berlin is a failed state. The riot police in Berlin is abused by Interior Minister Henkel as his personal bully crew to provoke left-wing activists, in order to produce riots on the streets, which Henkel can then again use in his election campaign (you can google "Rigaer 94" for more details). I'll be in Berlin on Saturday for the big rally, I'm pretty sure it will be yet another display of police brutality. All in order to fuel a personal election campaign. It's disgusting and a shame to German police. (disclaimer: I'm Bavarian, and have a cop in the family)

pjlegato 10y ago
What happens if you hold an anti-gentrification protest on the streets of Munich without having obtained a formal permit in advance? Yes, the use of riot police is exaggerated in Berlin, but comparing it to a "failed state" seems rather absurd. Damascus or Baghdad are doing a whole lot worse. That reminds me of how I'd see people on the subway platform shaking their heads sadly and complaining that "Berlin is such a disaster; public transportation in Berlin has fallen to third world levels" when a train was (rarely) 1 minute late.
- mschuster91 10y ago
  It's not just the police. - the disaster called BER - failure of basic public services (there are even talks about canceling the upcoming election because the citizens cannot register, due to a combination of gross mismanagement and ancient hardware) - schools are literally falling apart and even urgent repairs cannot be done because of authority issues (who is supposed to pay for what); alone the schools would need 5B € to fix, not to mention the other public buildings - corruption scandals - gentrification - complete disregard for human rights in regard to refugees
  - posterboy 10y ago
    > the disaster called BER BER is basically ready and only held up by zealous scrutiny, while there's no hurry to close Schoenefeld. > failure of basic public services (there are even talks about canceling the upcoming election because the citizens cannot register, due to a combination of gross mismanagement and ancient hardware) Is that because of the increased burden of immigration? > schools are literally falling apart and even urgent repairs cannot be done because of authority issues (who is supposed to pay for what); alone the schools would need 5B € to fix, not to mention the other public buildings It's like, the internet was never invented and teachers in a crowded room are the only source of knowledge. It's also like pupils actually wanted more intensive classes and that fails because ... the buildings are old? However, I guess it's highly unlikely that buildings are going to collapse like the factories in Bangladesh. Sure, there's mold and leakage in older buildings, to the point that whole schools are transfered. There are more schools torn down than are built every year, at least in my end, the east. Berlin is big and growing fast. Berlin is big, it's an infrastructural problem that rivals any other European city. Anyway, the children, some, are just as violent as the police or they'd want to be, at least. The unemployment rate for young people is unusually high, so the problem goes deeper. University funding OTOH is increasing in a downward economy. I'd call observer bias because, same as with BER, the story is milked by the media. - corruption scandals Sure, there is clear evidence for police brutality for example, but on the other hand, the laws are overall lax compared to New York or Bavaria. - gentrification Seems like the fix for lacking school funds, ironically. - complete disregard for human rights in regard to refugees "complete" is completely unfair. OTOH, Me and you dwelling here doesn't directly help starving people in Zimbabwe, either, AFAICS. Your argument of association doesn't solve the question of undue violence in Murdock's case.
type0 10y ago
I'm not sure about Berlin but I heard that Bavaria is frequently called Polizei Staat with a lot of policemen in civil clothing on Munich streets, care to comment on how it compares to Berlin?
- mschuster91 10y ago
  tl;dr: Berlin cops hate left-wing activists with a passion, but ignore "casual law breaking", Munich cops are not very violent but very pedantic otherwise. Berlin is anarchy, police brutality and power abuse at its finest - I'm interested what the result of the Rigaer 94 rally in 20h will be. Munich cops don't engage in open violence, esp. not plain-clothes officers, but they do fuck you over for smoking weed, crossing a red light as pedestrian or riding a bicycle on Marienplatz with no mercy. That is what is meant with "Polizeistaat".
  - pjlegato 10y ago
    > Berlin is anarchy Perhaps you could gain some perspective by traveling in Somalia for a few weeks. Berlin is nowhere close to "anarchy"; this is absurd hyperbole that simply weakens your overall argument.