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"incoherent", "claiming to have been beaten up by police" http://archive.is/vBS6N http://archive.is/vBS6N I wouldn't call those incoherent - I'd call them dis

"incoherent", "claiming to have been beaten up by police" http://archive.is/vBS6N http://archive.is/vBS6N I wouldn't call those incoherent - I'd call them distressed and angry at having been beaten up by the police. They say he hit his head on the cage separator - which is a classic cop write-up for after they've roughed you up.

cortesoft 10y ago
It is also something that mentally distressed people on lots of drugs do. I think all of the evidence points to the official story being true.
- amenod 10y ago
  To be (more) precise: no evidence points to the official story not being true. It could easily have been the cops' fault.
  - blastrat 10y ago
    To be (more) nuanced: the truth is often somewhere in the middle, where a drug/alcohol infused psych patient acts like a complete jackass, and frustrated cops get sick of dealing with him and let him have a few knocks (which they should not do) and then lie about it (which they should not do) but it doesn't really change the underlying cause. Sometimes it does change the underlying cause, sometimes they kill somebody who would not otherwise have died, but in this case we are in all likelihood talking about a drug/alcohol infused psych patient who was behaving extremely erratically and there is enough evidence for him to have been the cause of his own demise, and no particular evidence that the cops were. We can accept the outcome of this while in our minds leaving room for the idea that psych patients can be very difficult to deal with and they frequently and sadly do provoke abuse from the people we leave to look after them. Think of it like resolving a dispute between two children, who socked who first etc. Sadly, that's what kids do and they lie about it, their statements are unreliable. Watching Judge Judy (!) gives good perspective on this, same sadly is true for adults, frequently both sides are lying, but outcomes that are just(-icey) enough can be determined
    - amenod 10y ago
      Agreed. However he did go to some lengths to make it look like it wasn't suicide... It is difficult to judge given the (lack of) facts, but it's a sad story whichever way one looks at it.
dpark 10y ago
They're pretty incoherent. His retelling has a really jumbled timeline. Part of that might be missing context if he was replying to other tweets but they aren't linked. The ones that are linked don't look much better, though. His tweets to @jackstormwriter don't make much sense unless the archive somehow lost most of the ones from @jackstormwriter. He also claimed that the police assaulted him at his own home, while reports indicate that he was not at his own home and was basically trying to break down the door, hence why the police were called. It seems likely he had a psychotic episode. This whole thing is tragic but I'm not sure it indicates abusive behavior from the police.
- madaxe_again 10y ago
  He may well (in fact, probably was) beating at his neighbour's door in the first instance - but the second, you'll have to take their word for it. If you read the autopsy, specifically about the blunt force trauma, either he put up on hell of a fight, or they did indeed paste him.
  - dpark 10y ago
    > you'll have to take their word for it. I'm pretty sure if you care to check, you can get the police report for the second incident and go ask the relevant neighbors. The likelihood that the police were waiting for Murdock to show up at his home so they could randomly attack him seems vanishingly low. Excessive force I could believe. Police with nothing better to do than randomly assault an upper-class white man repeatedly? Not as much.
    - SFJulie 10y ago
      I may beg for a godwin point pointing this but, the upper white man was also suffering a mental condition. And as much as poors, coloured, and psychotics or people suffering from mental diseases have a tendency to be treated in a rather unfavorable way by the police forces. They are weak, and not liked by some citizens. And, I think I am gonna win my Godwin Point here stating that making hierarchy in discrimination is exactly what have led to the tolerance to nazi's final solution. They did send the homo, the unionists, the ill and crazies, the opponents (whistle blowers of the time) and then the gipsies and jews. Yes it is true the jews and the gipsies paid the highest price, but they got the acceptation of their camp by sending in a dis-unified populations some «legitimate» persons. I am pretty much saying that when this kind of shift in sorting the true/fake victim from the bucket of all the victims happens there is a slippery slope. Concerning ian's death, the twitter were looking like he was actually assaulted and was fearing police. With more information, it looks now more like a suicide. Still some stuff remain unclear, but I am no detective, nor judge so I have no insights. Still, I saw a lot of friend coders falling into drugs, one committing suicide and some losing their mental health/balance. So, I am still curious about this story.

cortesoft 10y ago

It is also something that mentally distressed people on lots of drugs do. I think all of the evidence points to the official story being true.

amenod 10y ago
To be (more) precise: no evidence points to the official story not being true. It could easily have been the cops' fault.
- blastrat 10y ago
  To be (more) nuanced: the truth is often somewhere in the middle, where a drug/alcohol infused psych patient acts like a complete jackass, and frustrated cops get sick of dealing with him and let him have a few knocks (which they should not do) and then lie about it (which they should not do) but it doesn't really change the underlying cause. Sometimes it does change the underlying cause, sometimes they kill somebody who would not otherwise have died, but in this case we are in all likelihood talking about a drug/alcohol infused psych patient who was behaving extremely erratically and there is enough evidence for him to have been the cause of his own demise, and no particular evidence that the cops were. We can accept the outcome of this while in our minds leaving room for the idea that psych patients can be very difficult to deal with and they frequently and sadly do provoke abuse from the people we leave to look after them. Think of it like resolving a dispute between two children, who socked who first etc. Sadly, that's what kids do and they lie about it, their statements are unreliable. Watching Judge Judy (!) gives good perspective on this, same sadly is true for adults, frequently both sides are lying, but outcomes that are just(-icey) enough can be determined
  - amenod 10y ago
    Agreed. However he did go to some lengths to make it look like it wasn't suicide... It is difficult to judge given the (lack of) facts, but it's a sad story whichever way one looks at it.

dpark 10y ago

They're pretty incoherent. His retelling has a really jumbled timeline. Part of that might be missing context if he was replying to other tweets but they aren't linked. The ones that are linked don't look much better, though. His tweets to @jackstormwriter don't make much sense unless the archive somehow lost most of the ones from @jackstormwriter. He also claimed that the police assaulted him at his own home, while reports indicate that he was not at his own home and was basically trying to break down the door, hence why the police were called. It seems likely he had a psychotic episode. This whole thing is tragic but I'm not sure it indicates abusive behavior from the police.

madaxe_again 10y ago
He may well (in fact, probably was) beating at his neighbour's door in the first instance - but the second, you'll have to take their word for it. If you read the autopsy, specifically about the blunt force trauma, either he put up on hell of a fight, or they did indeed paste him.
- dpark 10y ago
  > you'll have to take their word for it. I'm pretty sure if you care to check, you can get the police report for the second incident and go ask the relevant neighbors. The likelihood that the police were waiting for Murdock to show up at his home so they could randomly attack him seems vanishingly low. Excessive force I could believe. Police with nothing better to do than randomly assault an upper-class white man repeatedly? Not as much.
  - SFJulie 10y ago
    I may beg for a godwin point pointing this but, the upper white man was also suffering a mental condition. And as much as poors, coloured, and psychotics or people suffering from mental diseases have a tendency to be treated in a rather unfavorable way by the police forces. They are weak, and not liked by some citizens. And, I think I am gonna win my Godwin Point here stating that making hierarchy in discrimination is exactly what have led to the tolerance to nazi's final solution. They did send the homo, the unionists, the ill and crazies, the opponents (whistle blowers of the time) and then the gipsies and jews. Yes it is true the jews and the gipsies paid the highest price, but they got the acceptation of their camp by sending in a dis-unified populations some «legitimate» persons. I am pretty much saying that when this kind of shift in sorting the true/fake victim from the bucket of all the victims happens there is a slippery slope. Concerning ian's death, the twitter were looking like he was actually assaulted and was fearing police. With more information, it looks now more like a suicide. Still some stuff remain unclear, but I am no detective, nor judge so I have no insights. Still, I saw a lot of friend coders falling into drugs, one committing suicide and some losing their mental health/balance. So, I am still curious about this story.