5 ms·

I'm surprised the article didn't mention it, but check out the last page of the autopsy. They found chlordiazepoxide, diazepam, temazepam, and oxazepam in his b

I'm surprised the article didn't mention it, but check out the last page of the autopsy. They found chlordiazepoxide, diazepam, temazepam, and oxazepam in his bloodstream, which could have had some terrible interactions with alcohol. This sounds more to me like a drug overdose that caused a psychological episode than just the alcohol-fueled suicide they make it out to be. Very strange.

protomyth 10y ago
Not so strange, sadly. The combination of drugs and alcohol is an especially bad thing for people experiencing depression. HHS (which includes the CDC) has a lot of papers and studies on this sort of thing.
- jwdunne 10y ago
  High level of benzodiazepines is enough to kill off your inhibitions and short term memory. Mixed with alcohol, if you feel that way, there is nothing stopping you from taking your life. At 16, during an episode of depression and psychosis, I was trusted with a whole box of Lorazepam. Being in the state I was, I took the whole box. I have only fleeting images and I woke up the next day on a PICU. The not remembering is especially hard since I have quite a vivid memory - I seem to have lost those memories forever now, though I'm not sure if I want to remember.
  - malkia 10y ago
    I was prescribed some medication time ago, and it felt me the most depressed person, but I was aware that this must be the cause of it, and asked my doctor to stop it. The other medication was not that effective, as this one, but I no longer had the moods. I was feeling as if nothing really matter, but this time literally, not in some "grand scheme of things" way. I had to push myself somehow to do things. It could've been something else, but it coincided and stopped days after I started taking that medication.
    - blt 10y ago
      You are lucky it was only a medicine side effect. Many depressed people feel that way their entire lives.
  - aphextron 10y ago
    Benzos are nothing but bad news. I had a very similar experience in my teens. Woke up 24 hours later in the emergency room with a wrecked car and no memory of anything.
madaxe_again 10y ago
"incoherent", "claiming to have been beaten up by police" http://archive.is/vBS6N http://archive.is/vBS6N I wouldn't call those incoherent - I'd call them distressed and angry at having been beaten up by the police. They say he hit his head on the cage separator - which is a classic cop write-up for after they've roughed you up.
- cortesoft 10y ago
  It is also something that mentally distressed people on lots of drugs do. I think all of the evidence points to the official story being true.
  - amenod 10y ago
    To be (more) precise: no evidence points to the official story not being true. It could easily have been the cops' fault.
    - blastrat 10y ago
      To be (more) nuanced: the truth is often somewhere in the middle, where a drug/alcohol infused psych patient acts like a complete jackass, and frustrated cops get sick of dealing with him and let him have a few knocks (which they should not do) and then lie about it (which they should not do) but it doesn't really change the underlying cause. Sometimes it does change the underlying cause, sometimes they kill somebody who would not otherwise have died, but in this case we are in all likelihood talking about a drug/alcohol infused psych patient who was behaving extremely erratically and there is enough evidence for him to have been the cause of his own demise, and no particular evidence that the cops were. We can accept the outcome of this while in our minds leaving room for the idea that psych patients can be very difficult to deal with and they frequently and sadly do provoke abuse from the people we leave to look after them. Think of it like resolving a dispute between two children, who socked who first etc. Sadly, that's what kids do and they lie about it, their statements are unreliable. Watching Judge Judy (!) gives good perspective on this, same sadly is true for adults, frequently both sides are lying, but outcomes that are just(-icey) enough can be determined
madaxe_again 10y ago
From the autopsy, he did not die of an overdose, but rather of hanging - appears he looped the vacuum flex around the top bannister, then slid down the stairs until it cut off blood flow - "Cause of Death: Hanging". That said, you're quite right that the cocktail he had in his system disinhibited him to the point of no return.
niccaluim 10y ago
No one takes four different benzos at once unless they've got a specific outcome in mind.
- droopyEyelids 10y ago
  Thats simply false. Benzodiazepines are addictive, build a quick tolerance, and they destroy judgement. You can no more predict a heavy recreational benzo users's night than you can predict what someone will do blacked out on ambien or alcohol.
  - djsumdog 10y ago
    Can attest to this. I had a very good friend who was taking an insane amount of various pills (hydros, valium and some others) and had a breakdown. She wasn't suicidal, but the doctors told her she was lucky to be alive with as much as she was taking. It totally impairs judgment, and people who are addicted can quickly escalate without realizing it. This very well could have been an accidental suicide.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - niccaluim 10y ago
    I've been addicted to benzos (since recovered) and know many others who have been too, so I'm intimately aware of their addictive nature and rapid tolerance. Saying they "destroy" judgment is a bit hyperbolic though. In any event we're all speculating. But I seriously doubt anything about this was accidental, even if the benzos were recreational. The drugs didn't kill him. The hanging did.
  - MollyR 10y ago
    I had issues with stress and problems sleeping from university. I was prescribed benzo's, While they helped, before I knew it, I got addicted with a tolerance quickly. Breaking that addiction was one the worst experiences of my life. It would have been impossible without the support of my family.
argonaut 10y ago
It seems everyone is a forensic medical professional now. Did anyone actually read the report? From the medical examiner: "I received and reviewed the Toxicology Report. The findings do not change my opinion regarding the cause and manner of death."
- DanBC 10y ago
  Parent post is not saying that benzos caused the death, but that the benzo + alcohol mix made worse the mental state that caused the death.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]

protomyth 10y ago

Not so strange, sadly. The combination of drugs and alcohol is an especially bad thing for people experiencing depression. HHS (which includes the CDC) has a lot of papers and studies on this sort of thing.

jwdunne 10y ago
High level of benzodiazepines is enough to kill off your inhibitions and short term memory. Mixed with alcohol, if you feel that way, there is nothing stopping you from taking your life. At 16, during an episode of depression and psychosis, I was trusted with a whole box of Lorazepam. Being in the state I was, I took the whole box. I have only fleeting images and I woke up the next day on a PICU. The not remembering is especially hard since I have quite a vivid memory - I seem to have lost those memories forever now, though I'm not sure if I want to remember.
- malkia 10y ago
  I was prescribed some medication time ago, and it felt me the most depressed person, but I was aware that this must be the cause of it, and asked my doctor to stop it. The other medication was not that effective, as this one, but I no longer had the moods. I was feeling as if nothing really matter, but this time literally, not in some "grand scheme of things" way. I had to push myself somehow to do things. It could've been something else, but it coincided and stopped days after I started taking that medication.
  - blt 10y ago
    You are lucky it was only a medicine side effect. Many depressed people feel that way their entire lives.
- aphextron 10y ago
  Benzos are nothing but bad news. I had a very similar experience in my teens. Woke up 24 hours later in the emergency room with a wrecked car and no memory of anything.

madaxe_again 10y ago

"incoherent", "claiming to have been beaten up by police" http://archive.is/vBS6N http://archive.is/vBS6N I wouldn't call those incoherent - I'd call them distressed and angry at having been beaten up by the police. They say he hit his head on the cage separator - which is a classic cop write-up for after they've roughed you up.

cortesoft 10y ago
It is also something that mentally distressed people on lots of drugs do. I think all of the evidence points to the official story being true.
- amenod 10y ago
  To be (more) precise: no evidence points to the official story not being true. It could easily have been the cops' fault.
  - blastrat 10y ago
    To be (more) nuanced: the truth is often somewhere in the middle, where a drug/alcohol infused psych patient acts like a complete jackass, and frustrated cops get sick of dealing with him and let him have a few knocks (which they should not do) and then lie about it (which they should not do) but it doesn't really change the underlying cause. Sometimes it does change the underlying cause, sometimes they kill somebody who would not otherwise have died, but in this case we are in all likelihood talking about a drug/alcohol infused psych patient who was behaving extremely erratically and there is enough evidence for him to have been the cause of his own demise, and no particular evidence that the cops were. We can accept the outcome of this while in our minds leaving room for the idea that psych patients can be very difficult to deal with and they frequently and sadly do provoke abuse from the people we leave to look after them. Think of it like resolving a dispute between two children, who socked who first etc. Sadly, that's what kids do and they lie about it, their statements are unreliable. Watching Judge Judy (!) gives good perspective on this, same sadly is true for adults, frequently both sides are lying, but outcomes that are just(-icey) enough can be determined

madaxe_again 10y ago

From the autopsy, he did not die of an overdose, but rather of hanging - appears he looped the vacuum flex around the top bannister, then slid down the stairs until it cut off blood flow - "Cause of Death: Hanging". That said, you're quite right that the cocktail he had in his system disinhibited him to the point of no return.

niccaluim 10y ago

No one takes four different benzos at once unless they've got a specific outcome in mind.

droopyEyelids 10y ago
Thats simply false. Benzodiazepines are addictive, build a quick tolerance, and they destroy judgement. You can no more predict a heavy recreational benzo users's night than you can predict what someone will do blacked out on ambien or alcohol.
- djsumdog 10y ago
  Can attest to this. I had a very good friend who was taking an insane amount of various pills (hydros, valium and some others) and had a breakdown. She wasn't suicidal, but the doctors told her she was lucky to be alive with as much as she was taking. It totally impairs judgment, and people who are addicted can quickly escalate without realizing it. This very well could have been an accidental suicide.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- niccaluim 10y ago
  I've been addicted to benzos (since recovered) and know many others who have been too, so I'm intimately aware of their addictive nature and rapid tolerance. Saying they "destroy" judgment is a bit hyperbolic though. In any event we're all speculating. But I seriously doubt anything about this was accidental, even if the benzos were recreational. The drugs didn't kill him. The hanging did.
- MollyR 10y ago
  I had issues with stress and problems sleeping from university. I was prescribed benzo's, While they helped, before I knew it, I got addicted with a tolerance quickly. Breaking that addiction was one the worst experiences of my life. It would have been impossible without the support of my family.

argonaut 10y ago

It seems everyone is a forensic medical professional now. Did anyone actually read the report? From the medical examiner: "I received and reviewed the Toxicology Report. The findings do not change my opinion regarding the cause and manner of death."

DanBC 10y ago
Parent post is not saying that benzos caused the death, but that the benzo + alcohol mix made worse the mental state that caused the death.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]