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Hi HN, Andrew here. I'm the AutoMicroFarm founder. Really happy to finally have this prototype finished, and available. Let me know if you have any questions!

by ph0rque 10y ago

justusw 10y ago
That looks like an amazing concept! I especially dig the wading pool improvisation. Ideally I would like to have something like this for indoors. Are there any plans to offer a non-backyard version at some point in the future?
- ph0rque 10y ago
  Thanks! There are a lot of indoor options available, but they are pretty small in size, and might produce a salad a week at the most. That's really not AutoMicroFarm's vision. If you are thinking something that's larger in size, that's a possibility in the future. AutoMicroFarm would have to solve the issue of the weight (the water and sand in the current system are about 1.5 tons). Also, the cost of the LED lighting would have to come down before it is affordable.
  - JPKab 10y ago
    I'm being 100% serious here: Have you thought about the market for the smaller one being more oriented towards cannabis rather than vegetables? With Colorado and Washington state (and I believe Alaska) now allowing homeowners to legally grow cannabis, I think a smaller version of this product for indoor use would have a market. It doesn't have to produce a large yield, and people would really like the aesthetic aspect of a closed cycle with fish involved.
    - ph0rque 10y ago
      Yes, that gets brought up a lot. There's a site dedicated to cannabis aquaponics: http://www.potentponics.com/ http://www.potentponics.com/
- tgokh 10y ago
  I don't know any of the details, but a pizza place in my town has an indoor aquaponic setup in their restaurant growing herbs. Edit: http://www.pompieripizza.com/Pompieri_Pizza/Fish_Tanks.html http://www.pompieripizza.com/Pompieri_Pizza/Fish_Tanks.html
ec109685 10y ago
Hopefully you can partner with installers in metros such as the Bay Area who can help less industrious folks get up and running. Amazing what a difference that decking makes :)
bluegene 10y ago
How does this work in winter?
- ph0rque 10y ago
  You would need to either locate it in a greenhouse, or just shut it down over the winter by harvesting fish and plants, and letting the water drain away instead of into the fish tank.
  - Bedon292 10y ago
    I was coming here to ask that. If this were in some sort of greenhouse would this be sustainable for years at a time, or is it more designed to be something you start up each spring? Also, may have missed it, but do you plant the seeds right into the sand or sprout them first somewhere else? (I know basically nothing about gardening, sorry) Great idea, and very tempting when I get into a new house.
    - ph0rque 10y ago
      Yes, my vision is for every house to have a food-grow room, just like most houses had root cellars ~100 years ago. I really like Ceres greenhouses (http://www.ceresgs.com/ http://www.ceresgs.com/), as well as Open Building Institute's aquaponic greenhouse (http://openbuildinginstitute.org/buildings/#greenhouse http://openbuildinginstitute.org/buildings/#greenhouse). The easiest way to get started is by planting the seeds into the sand, just push them in with your finger. I did plant sprouts in about half of each veggie bed, but I had to wash dirt off their roots, which really put them into shock.
      - Bedon292 10y ago
        Those are some amazing links. Definitely some inspiration for the future. I could definitely see this getting tied into a system like in the second link, with compost and chickens, and all that.
      - 0xdeadbeefbabe 10y ago
rhaps0dy 10y ago
How many of these would you need to produce enough food for one adult? What kind of fish should you grow, and how long do they take to be adults and edible? Your project is very cool, I think you're doing an amazing job. Keep it up!
- ph0rque 10y ago
  If you eat mostly plants, two of these systems will provide 90%+ of your food (assuming you have a greenhouse to put it in, or live in a place that stays warm year-round). The fastest-growing fish used for aquaponics is tilapia, which can reach maturity in six months. But, they require for the water temperature to stay above 60F (15C), and really prefer water above 85F (30C). Other fish take 9 or more months to mature. Thanks!
  - juliangoldsmith 10y ago
    >If you eat mostly plants, two of these systems will provide 90%+ of your food What numbers are you basing this on? That is, do you have an estimated yield in lbs. for what one system can produce?
    - ph0rque 10y ago
      My initial proof-of-concept produced 10 lbs/square foot annually, not counting the fish. This system should be more productive, but only time will tell. If this system has similar levels of productivity, it would produce 360 lbs annually, so two systems get you 2 lbs of food daily.
- jsilence 10y ago
  Apart from the aspect that I consider this design to be flawed, I can give you some rough estimates on yield. A sound stocking density for tilapia would be around 50-60 kg/m3. If you keep temperatures high (28-30°C) you can have two harvests in one year. Tilapia has approximately 40% filet, so you can produce roundabout 50kg of edible fish fillet in one cubic meter fish tank. With such a fish tank you can approximately produce nutrients for ten square meters of grow beds. A realistic estimate for the yield would be 10kg of produce per square meter per year, maybe a little higher if you take good care of the system. So that would give you 100-150 kg of produce per year with a 16sqm green house, a one cubic meter fish tank and ten sqm grow beds. The recommended consumption of produce is 100-150 kg per year. So your system could cover your produce consumption for one person. You still need carbohydrates (grains) and oil (rape seeds and sun flower and such) and protein. The fish will not cover your protein demand. You'll also have to keep in mind that depending on how you run the system you'll have a lot of fish twice a year. Staggered production is not possible in one smallish fish tank.
mikeash 10y ago
This looks really neat. I wish I had a yard to put it in. If I move someday, I'll certainly try to remember this. Can you explain what makes it better than planting a traditional garden? I came away from the page with the impression that it is better, but I'm not entirely sure what makes it so.
- ph0rque 10y ago
  Here are just a few advantages over a traditional garden: * You get fish * Better yield, due to items mentioned below * The optimal watering cycle, followed by a drain cycle, means the plants get the air, water, and nutrients they need multiple times a day. * The water being reused means you need only 10% of it * Going organic is really easy: just feed the fish organic fish feed * No soil diseases * Virtually no weeds (I’ve picked ~3 weeds over the course of the 1.5 years I ran my initial proof-of-concept prototype) * Minimal maintenance: only need to plant, harvest, prune, and feed the fish
  - mikeash 10y ago
    Wonderful, thanks for taking the time to explain!
mdesq 10y ago
I was thrilled to see you're an RTP-based company. I'm on the other side of Raleigh from you, but I shared this with my community and now need to do some measuring to figure out how much grading I'd have to do to install one of these and then figure out what my HOA would say. :) Have you gone through a winter in this area with the unit in a greenhouse? Any reports on how that worked out?
- ph0rque 10y ago
  Waves Make sure to mention the free installation to your community! (I may limit this to a small initial number of customers, we'll see how it goes). I have an HOA, as well. In our bylaws, we're allowed a garden of 50 square feet without explicit permission, so I didn't apply for an arch. request. But I'd be happy to help any customers apply. My first prototype was in a greenhouse in Cary. I was able to continue growing through the winter, but everything (understandably) grew slower. See my previous blog posts for more detail: http://blog.automicrofarm.com/page/3 http://blog.automicrofarm.com/page/3
  - mdesq 10y ago
    That's very cool. I'm actually on my HOA board (but the ARC is a delegated function) and know a few people have gardens without any trouble. Incidentally, the first comment I received was about "farmed fish."
wtracy 10y ago
Sure, two of them! :-) 1. Are you in California? If so, can you comment on how easy/hard it is to get Tilapia for a setup like this? I know someone living near Campbell who had trouble legally getting any of the Tilapia species that are suitable for aquaculture. The California department of Fish and Wildlife apparently considers most or all Tilapia to be invasive species. (Oddly enough, I see T. buttikoferi in pet stores every now and then, but they're too expensive to eat.) 2. Is using PVC really that bad? I've been in the aquarium hobby for over half my life now, and I can't remember ever seeing a single DIY aquarium plumbing project that didn't use PVC. PVC seems particularly ubiquitous for elbows and fittings--how hard/expensive is it to get PEX fittings at retail?
- jsilence 10y ago
  PVC-U is just fine for aquaponics. It can be considered food safe. PE is nicer to recycle, but when you have a sound system design you are not going to change and discard pipes very often.
- ph0rque 10y ago
  1. I'm not in CA, but from what I read it seems like raising tilapia in CA would be legally difficult. You do have other fish choices, such as catfish crappie, perch, and bluegill. 2. I haven't been able to find a lot of hard facts about PVC, other than the fact that it supposedly bad for fish you want to eat eventually. In any case, PEX piping and fittings are readily available online and in Home Depot and Lowes stores.

Hi HN, Andrew here. I'm the AutoMicroFarm founder. Really happy to finally have this prototype finished, and available. Let me know if you have any questions!

by ph0rque 10y ago

Hi HN, Andrew here. I'm the AutoMicroFarm founder. Really happy to finally have this prototype finished, and available. Let me know if you have any questions!

justusw 10y ago

That looks like an amazing concept! I especially dig the wading pool improvisation. Ideally I would like to have something like this for indoors. Are there any plans to offer a non-backyard version at some point in the future?

ph0rque 10y ago
Thanks! There are a lot of indoor options available, but they are pretty small in size, and might produce a salad a week at the most. That's really not AutoMicroFarm's vision. If you are thinking something that's larger in size, that's a possibility in the future. AutoMicroFarm would have to solve the issue of the weight (the water and sand in the current system are about 1.5 tons). Also, the cost of the LED lighting would have to come down before it is affordable.
- JPKab 10y ago
  I'm being 100% serious here: Have you thought about the market for the smaller one being more oriented towards cannabis rather than vegetables? With Colorado and Washington state (and I believe Alaska) now allowing homeowners to legally grow cannabis, I think a smaller version of this product for indoor use would have a market. It doesn't have to produce a large yield, and people would really like the aesthetic aspect of a closed cycle with fish involved.
  - ph0rque 10y ago
    Yes, that gets brought up a lot. There's a site dedicated to cannabis aquaponics: http://www.potentponics.com/ http://www.potentponics.com/
tgokh 10y ago
I don't know any of the details, but a pizza place in my town has an indoor aquaponic setup in their restaurant growing herbs. Edit: http://www.pompieripizza.com/Pompieri_Pizza/Fish_Tanks.html http://www.pompieripizza.com/Pompieri_Pizza/Fish_Tanks.html

ec109685 10y ago

Hopefully you can partner with installers in metros such as the Bay Area who can help less industrious folks get up and running. Amazing what a difference that decking makes :)

bluegene 10y ago

How does this work in winter?

ph0rque 10y ago
You would need to either locate it in a greenhouse, or just shut it down over the winter by harvesting fish and plants, and letting the water drain away instead of into the fish tank.
- Bedon292 10y ago
  I was coming here to ask that. If this were in some sort of greenhouse would this be sustainable for years at a time, or is it more designed to be something you start up each spring? Also, may have missed it, but do you plant the seeds right into the sand or sprout them first somewhere else? (I know basically nothing about gardening, sorry) Great idea, and very tempting when I get into a new house.
  - ph0rque 10y ago
    Yes, my vision is for every house to have a food-grow room, just like most houses had root cellars ~100 years ago. I really like Ceres greenhouses (http://www.ceresgs.com/ http://www.ceresgs.com/), as well as Open Building Institute's aquaponic greenhouse (http://openbuildinginstitute.org/buildings/#greenhouse http://openbuildinginstitute.org/buildings/#greenhouse). The easiest way to get started is by planting the seeds into the sand, just push them in with your finger. I did plant sprouts in about half of each veggie bed, but I had to wash dirt off their roots, which really put them into shock.
    - Bedon292 10y ago
      Those are some amazing links. Definitely some inspiration for the future. I could definitely see this getting tied into a system like in the second link, with compost and chickens, and all that.
    - 0xdeadbeefbabe 10y ago

rhaps0dy 10y ago

How many of these would you need to produce enough food for one adult? What kind of fish should you grow, and how long do they take to be adults and edible? Your project is very cool, I think you're doing an amazing job. Keep it up!

ph0rque 10y ago
If you eat mostly plants, two of these systems will provide 90%+ of your food (assuming you have a greenhouse to put it in, or live in a place that stays warm year-round). The fastest-growing fish used for aquaponics is tilapia, which can reach maturity in six months. But, they require for the water temperature to stay above 60F (15C), and really prefer water above 85F (30C). Other fish take 9 or more months to mature. Thanks!
- juliangoldsmith 10y ago
  >If you eat mostly plants, two of these systems will provide 90%+ of your food What numbers are you basing this on? That is, do you have an estimated yield in lbs. for what one system can produce?
  - ph0rque 10y ago
    My initial proof-of-concept produced 10 lbs/square foot annually, not counting the fish. This system should be more productive, but only time will tell. If this system has similar levels of productivity, it would produce 360 lbs annually, so two systems get you 2 lbs of food daily.
jsilence 10y ago
Apart from the aspect that I consider this design to be flawed, I can give you some rough estimates on yield. A sound stocking density for tilapia would be around 50-60 kg/m3. If you keep temperatures high (28-30°C) you can have two harvests in one year. Tilapia has approximately 40% filet, so you can produce roundabout 50kg of edible fish fillet in one cubic meter fish tank. With such a fish tank you can approximately produce nutrients for ten square meters of grow beds. A realistic estimate for the yield would be 10kg of produce per square meter per year, maybe a little higher if you take good care of the system. So that would give you 100-150 kg of produce per year with a 16sqm green house, a one cubic meter fish tank and ten sqm grow beds. The recommended consumption of produce is 100-150 kg per year. So your system could cover your produce consumption for one person. You still need carbohydrates (grains) and oil (rape seeds and sun flower and such) and protein. The fish will not cover your protein demand. You'll also have to keep in mind that depending on how you run the system you'll have a lot of fish twice a year. Staggered production is not possible in one smallish fish tank.

mikeash 10y ago

This looks really neat. I wish I had a yard to put it in. If I move someday, I'll certainly try to remember this. Can you explain what makes it better than planting a traditional garden? I came away from the page with the impression that it is better, but I'm not entirely sure what makes it so.

ph0rque 10y ago
Here are just a few advantages over a traditional garden: * You get fish * Better yield, due to items mentioned below * The optimal watering cycle, followed by a drain cycle, means the plants get the air, water, and nutrients they need multiple times a day. * The water being reused means you need only 10% of it * Going organic is really easy: just feed the fish organic fish feed * No soil diseases * Virtually no weeds (I’ve picked ~3 weeds over the course of the 1.5 years I ran my initial proof-of-concept prototype) * Minimal maintenance: only need to plant, harvest, prune, and feed the fish
- mikeash 10y ago
  Wonderful, thanks for taking the time to explain!

mdesq 10y ago

I was thrilled to see you're an RTP-based company. I'm on the other side of Raleigh from you, but I shared this with my community and now need to do some measuring to figure out how much grading I'd have to do to install one of these and then figure out what my HOA would say. :) Have you gone through a winter in this area with the unit in a greenhouse? Any reports on how that worked out?

ph0rque 10y ago
Waves Make sure to mention the free installation to your community! (I may limit this to a small initial number of customers, we'll see how it goes). I have an HOA, as well. In our bylaws, we're allowed a garden of 50 square feet without explicit permission, so I didn't apply for an arch. request. But I'd be happy to help any customers apply. My first prototype was in a greenhouse in Cary. I was able to continue growing through the winter, but everything (understandably) grew slower. See my previous blog posts for more detail: http://blog.automicrofarm.com/page/3 http://blog.automicrofarm.com/page/3
- mdesq 10y ago
  That's very cool. I'm actually on my HOA board (but the ARC is a delegated function) and know a few people have gardens without any trouble. Incidentally, the first comment I received was about "farmed fish."

wtracy 10y ago

Sure, two of them! :-) 1. Are you in California? If so, can you comment on how easy/hard it is to get Tilapia for a setup like this? I know someone living near Campbell who had trouble legally getting any of the Tilapia species that are suitable for aquaculture. The California department of Fish and Wildlife apparently considers most or all Tilapia to be invasive species. (Oddly enough, I see T. buttikoferi in pet stores every now and then, but they're too expensive to eat.) 2. Is using PVC really that bad? I've been in the aquarium hobby for over half my life now, and I can't remember ever seeing a single DIY aquarium plumbing project that didn't use PVC. PVC seems particularly ubiquitous for elbows and fittings--how hard/expensive is it to get PEX fittings at retail?

jsilence 10y ago
PVC-U is just fine for aquaponics. It can be considered food safe. PE is nicer to recycle, but when you have a sound system design you are not going to change and discard pipes very often.
ph0rque 10y ago
1. I'm not in CA, but from what I read it seems like raising tilapia in CA would be legally difficult. You do have other fish choices, such as catfish crappie, perch, and bluegill. 2. I haven't been able to find a lot of hard facts about PVC, other than the fact that it supposedly bad for fish you want to eat eventually. In any case, PEX piping and fittings are readily available online and in Home Depot and Lowes stores.