4 ms·

Yeah, it's obvious that Heinlein didn't really believe himself that the military route was the one to go. As the parent says, he leaves it at "man it'd be great

Yeah, it's obvious that Heinlein didn't really believe himself that the military route was the one to go. As the parent says, he leaves it at "man it'd be great if we really cared more for our nation", but... Although the idea of separating citizens-that-care from citizens-that-don't-care has it's appeal, the chances of one class entrenching and eventually abusing the other are so high that it's not really worth it.

JoeAltmaier 10y ago
But - the Heinlein approach was to simply volunteer to be a Citizen. Yes it came with duties, but that's kind of the point. So there would be classes sure, but self-selected. If you feel abused, why just join the other class.
- Thimothy 10y ago
  The solution proposed by Heinlein has all the desirable characteristics: zero barriers to entry, not very burdensome (for the received benefits) and reliabilly produces good citizens. The problem is that I can't imagine a real method that can compare. There is no proof that the military way produces good citizens, and every other method ever tried introduces barriers, which usually leads to minorities being excluded.
  - csydas 10y ago
    Late reply but keep in mind that military service wasn't the only path to citizenship - it's just what he focused on since he had military experience. It was intended in the Starship Troopers world that other civil services, like teaching, would also grant citizenship upon completion.
  - simonh 10y ago
    > There is no proof that the military way produces good citizens, and every other method ever tried introduces barriers, which usually leads to minorities being excluded This set me thinking. The big problem with a mechanism for selecting voters is that the people doing the selecting get to manipulate the contents of the voter pool. In this case, army recruiters. Now not only are you selecting candidates who'l make good soldiers, you're selecting candidates who will vote the way you want them to. Combine that with the power to train and condition those people as you choose during their military service, and expel soldiers that don't tow the line, and you've got the makings of a pretty effective one party state system run for the benefit of the party (the military in this case) and not the citizens.
    - JoeAltmaier 10y ago
      You can sign up without going through a recruiter?

JoeAltmaier 10y ago

But - the Heinlein approach was to simply volunteer to be a Citizen. Yes it came with duties, but that's kind of the point. So there would be classes sure, but self-selected. If you feel abused, why just join the other class.

Thimothy 10y ago
The solution proposed by Heinlein has all the desirable characteristics: zero barriers to entry, not very burdensome (for the received benefits) and reliabilly produces good citizens. The problem is that I can't imagine a real method that can compare. There is no proof that the military way produces good citizens, and every other method ever tried introduces barriers, which usually leads to minorities being excluded.
- csydas 10y ago
  Late reply but keep in mind that military service wasn't the only path to citizenship - it's just what he focused on since he had military experience. It was intended in the Starship Troopers world that other civil services, like teaching, would also grant citizenship upon completion.
- simonh 10y ago
  > There is no proof that the military way produces good citizens, and every other method ever tried introduces barriers, which usually leads to minorities being excluded This set me thinking. The big problem with a mechanism for selecting voters is that the people doing the selecting get to manipulate the contents of the voter pool. In this case, army recruiters. Now not only are you selecting candidates who'l make good soldiers, you're selecting candidates who will vote the way you want them to. Combine that with the power to train and condition those people as you choose during their military service, and expel soldiers that don't tow the line, and you've got the makings of a pretty effective one party state system run for the benefit of the party (the military in this case) and not the citizens.
  - JoeAltmaier 10y ago
    You can sign up without going through a recruiter?